D&D General “Folk” D&D vs. “Official” D&D

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

People are free to leave WOTC's domain and play their own game. Good luck finding players.

Roll20 and other online communities are full of them. I think discovery is a bigger issue than a lack of available players (or DMs).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah. I have friends and coworkers who get a lot of stuff off sources like the dnd5e wikidot and have expressed having no idea what content is “official” and what isn’t.

My brother, who has the money to buy all of official 5E with pocket change, showed up to the first game I ran for him and his kids with player characters generated by them just pressing the button on an online generator over and over until something looked interesting.

As the DM stuck with trying to figure out what to do with them, a lot of it was nothing from a WotC book, although there was definitely some pirated/non-OGL stuff in there as well.

And once I unbroke my brain and figured out how these characters more or less worked, it was fine, and everyone had fun.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Wow, that comment from Gygax in '75 is bitterly hilarious today.

I've seen much, much, MUCH more homogeneity about what the game should be and what is valid/appropriate/worthwhile in D&D from so-called "folk D&D" types than anyone else. They're the ones far more likely to be hypertraditionalists who recoil at the thought of monks (gasp!) being present in their proper* European** fantasy*** game.

*Nothing of the sort, naturally. D&D has always been transgressive.
**Ditto, what with featuring all sorts of stuff that doesn't come from Europe, and all the schizotech.
***It isn't even always fantasy.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Wow, that comment from Gygax in '75 is bitterly hilarious today.

I've seen much, much, MUCH more homogeneity about what the game should be and what is valid/appropriate/worthwhile in D&D from so-called "folk D&D" types than anyone else. They're the ones far more likely to be hypertraditionalists who recoil at the thought of monks (gasp!) being present in their proper* European** fantasy*** game.

*Nothing of the sort, naturally. D&D has always been transgressive.
**Ditto, what with featuring all sorts of stuff that doesn't come from Europe, and all the schizotech.
***It isn't even always fantasy.

Yeah, the OSR purity tests are extremely funny, given that the era they're trying to emulate included Dragon/The Strategic Review articles about characters fighting Nazi tanks and a mostly-joking article from the point of view of a rust monster than mentioned that there were players who learned to speak animal languages and, most memorably, the language of Wall in order to break the game/defeat the DM's dungeon.

They're trying to be "pure" than OD&D ever was.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yeah, the OSR purity tests are extremely funny, given that the era they're trying to emulate included Dragon/The Strategic Review articles about characters fighting Nazi tanks and a mostly-joking article the point of view of a rust monster than mentioned that there were players who learned to speak animal languages and, most memorably, the language of Wall in order to break the game/defeat the DM's dungeon.

They're trying to be "pure" than OD&D ever was.

Most things of this nature are in this direction. Though it wears the cloak of (alleged) historical accuracy, the actual value is perceived legitimacy, which by its very nature is about perception, not reality. Much like, for example, the overwhelming emphasis on OSR circles on 3d6-strict, which was never as central or important in historical D&D as it is in OSR.

Chasing after an imagined, idealized past that never existed is pretty par for the course with human beings, though, so it's not like this is unusual or unique.

 

[Jaeger]

7:38: “there’s a real sense in which companies like wotc and games workshop act as a kind of parasite on their respective hobbies, siphoning money from players who think that they need them when that is increasingly no longer the case.”

Completely true. That’s capitalism.

That's Corporatism.

A very different thing...

Right. He wrote an open system, told fans to DIY the rest, and use their own imaginations. Then when money was more of a concern he switched to a closed system, told fans to only use official material, and to rely on the imaginations of TSR’s writers.

In Gygax's defense; even he was taken aback by the demand for campaign settings and Lore. Which is why he finally did Greyhawk.

There is, and will always be, a subset of the hobby that very much does want the RPG company to do their imagining for them. There are various reasons for this, mostly revolving around time constraints, and the ease of just cracking a module and playing through as a group with minimal prep.

Gygax would have been silly not to cater to that market. And it is one that WotC has made a lot of money by doing so...

People are free to leave WOTC's domain and play their own game. Good luck finding players.

Therein lies the rub. WotC has been deft in elevating the reach of D&D within the hobby, while it's erstwhile competitors such as Vampire/WoD etc, have mismanaged themselves into a decreasing market share within the same.

It is not WotC's fault that their competitors have mismanaged themselves.

But I also don't think that it has been very good for the hobby that D&D has gone from the 800lb. gorilla, to the 80'000lb. King Kong of the hobby.

I do think that this will self-correct over time however...

 

[overgeeked]

That's Corporatism.

A very different thing...

No, it’s capitalism as a whole.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Therein lies the rub. WotC has been deft in elevating the reach of D&D within the hobby, while it's erstwhile competitors such as Vampire/WoD etc, have mismanaged themselves into a decreasing market share within the same.

If anyone ever wrote a business textbook about the RPG industry, the rise and stunning collapse of White Wolf would be a hell of a case study. Normally one has to buy a social media company to set money on fire so thoroughly.

 

[Jaeger]

No, it’s capitalism as a whole.

I disagree.

Corporations are state created entities given special liability protections that small mom and pop businesses do not enjoy; insulating themselves from many of the effects of market forces, and thus very anti-capitalist.

But I suspect we define certain terms very differently, and as I do not wish to derail the thread we should debate in PM if you wish to continue this sideline.

 

[Jaeger]

If anyone ever wrote a business textbook about the RPG industry, the rise and stunning collapse of White Wolf would be a hell of a case study. Normally one has to buy a social media company to set money on fire so thoroughly.

It is quite impressive when looked at in hindsight.

They took the perennial #2 RPG company in the world, and reduced it to a company catering to the few remaining faithful thru kickstarter...