0th level characters

[Pssthpok]

I don't dislike that 'all 1st-level characters are already heroic', but I will miss my 'salt of the earth' games where we roll 3d6 down the line and take nothing but NPC class levels. 4E kinda 86s that idea with the 'heroic' approach to 1st level.

But, I figure the following would probably suffice:

HP equal Con score (i.e. no bonus from level)
Racial powers only (i.e. no bonus from any class level)
Base +0 level modifier for AC, attacks, defense, etc. (i.e... you get it)
No trained armor
No trained skills
No trained weapons

…pretty much because if you want more than this you don’t want a 0th level character.

However much XP both you and your DM think is cool for getting to 1st level is probably fine, too, since it's such an ambiguous idea in the first place.

Thoughts?

 

[Stalker0]

You might consider a tiny bump, such as allowing them 1 at will power, but changing it into an encounter power, things like that.

 

[FireLance]

Re-posted from the bildungsroman thread:

In another thread, I considered splitting the pre-1st-level stage into the the "Novice" and "Apprentice" levels. However, my key objective was to ease new players slowly into the game by gradually introducing them to the game rules and their characters' abilities. Note that this approach only roughly balances the classes and races (classes and races that have a higher proportion of constant and at-will abilities will be relatively more powerful at the Novice level).

At Novice level, the idea is to introduce the players to the simplest abilities of their characters and to the basics of gameplay. Novice-level characters have the following abilities:
[SBLOCK]Hit Points: Constitution+3 for defenders, Constitution+2 for leaders, strikers and controllers.

Healing surges: same as a 1st-level character, but can only be used between fights as Novice-level characters cannot catch a second wind (healing surges don't increase with levels, after all)

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: same as a 1st-level character (lack of money will be a bigger restriction on choice of weapons and armor for low-level characters, so further restricting proficiencies seems rather pointless)

Class Defence Bonus: same as a 1st-level character (it's a small and constant bonus, and helps to differentiate the characters)

Racial Abilities: All at-will and constant abilities*
Class Abilities: All at-will and constant class features, and one at-will power*
(* Except those related to action points and second wind, which will be introduced in the Apprentice level, along with encounter abilities and powers.)

Trained Skills: All free skills (e.g. Stealth and Thievery for a rogue) and one other.

Novice-level characters do not have action points and cannot catch a second wind.

Novice-level characters become Apprentice-level characters when they have earned one-quarter the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.[/SBLOCK]At Apprentice level, players are introduced to the more tactical aspects of gameplay, including action points, the second wind action, and encounter abilities. Apprentice-level characters gain the following abilities:
[SBLOCK]Hit Points: +6 hp for defenders, +5 hp for leaders and strikers, and +4 hp for controllers.

Racial Abilities: Gain their remaining racial abilities.

Class Abilities: Gain their remaining class features, another at-will power, and one encounter power.

Trained Skills: Gain an additional trained skill.

Apprentice-level characters become 1st-level characters when they have earned one-half the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.[/SBLOCK]At 1st-level, the characters gain their remaining abilities, namely:
[SBLOCK]Hit Points: +6 hp for defenders, +5 hp for leaders and strikers, and +4 hp for controllers.

Class Abilities: Gain one daily power.

Trained Skills: Gain their remaining trained skills.

Feat: One feat.[/SBLOCK]However, even the Novice level assumes some amount of practice or training on the part of the character. For a true "bildungsroman" start, the character's abilities might be along the lines of:
[SBLOCK]Hit Points: Constitution score for all characters.

Healing surges: half the number for a 1st-level character, and can only be used between fights

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: same as a 1st-level character

Class Defence Bonus: same as a 1st-level character

Racial Abilities: All at-will and constant abilities*
(* Except those related to action points and second wind)

Class Abilities: Gain the benefits of the multiclassing feat for the selected class.

Trained Skills: As per the multiclassing feat for the selected class.

Bildungsroman characters do not have action points and cannot catch a second wind.

Bildungsroman characters become Novice-level characters when they have earned one-tenth the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.[/SBLOCK]

 

[malraux]

I have no idea how this would play out. But you might want to do two different stages. The first as you describe, with essentially nothing beyond what your race gives you. Then a second stage where you gain class abilities, but not everything. I'd degrade all class stuff by one category. So, you'd get no at will powers, your 1st level at will powers work as /encounter powers, and you /encounter powers are dailies. Armor prof is one category worse (or you only gain half benefit), as with weapons. Might not be perfect, but that'll roughly work out, and gives you two levels instead of one to run with the idea of 0-level characters.

 

[loseth]

For 0th-level, I'd try to stick with the existing framework:

You start as a level 1 minion (e.g. peasant farmer). As you get the bildung into your roman, long experience or some momentous event turns you into a standard level 1 creature (e.g. village militia sergeant). Later, another momentous event or even longer experience turns you into a level 1 PC-classed hero. Then you progress as normal.

 

[vagabundo]

<snip> Good Stuff </snip>

I've just subscribed to this tread to keep your novice/apprentice. I'm thinking of using this in a flash back at some stage, to show how the party met up, I'd have to be careful not to kill any of them off though.

 

[Piratecat]

I'll move this to the correct forum.

My method for equating the power of a 1st level 3e character:

1. Halve starting hit points before adding con.
2. Remove one at-will ability and the daily ability, leaving them with one at-will and one encounter.
3. Halve starting money.
4. Keep feats, skills, defenses, and racial abilities the same.

 

[erf_beto]

I'm not sure how to make this into a viable option as of now, but I'm considering the Multiclass feats for the 0th level: they represent what makes those classes "tick". Maybe something like, half everything (hp, surges, etc) plus the benefits of the multiclass feat for the class you'll pick at first level. No second wind.

So an aprentice wizard would have 10hp, 3 surges, the Arcana skill and could cast Force Orb once per encounter.

I thought about extending this into an Novice Tier, but I suppose it would be too complicated for little gain: as a player, I usually want the "I suck" levels to end as soon as possible.

 

[malcolm_n]

Not that this becomes any less viable of a thread, but apparently Necromancer games will give us all a way to play 0th level in October. Still, it's always fun to come up with our own ideas. BTW, if you don't mind, I'll be placing this in my weekly updates for the creations compilations thread.

 

[FireLance]

Not that this becomes any less viable of a thread, but apparently Necromancer games will give us all a way to play 0th level in October. Still, it's always fun to come up with our own ideas. BTW, if you don't mind, I'll be placing this in my weekly updates for the creations compilations thread.

I don't mind. My method has a somewhat different objective, anyway: that of presenting (even) simpler characters to ease new players into the game. Starting out weak, or incrementally gaining power, is more of a secondary issue.