1/2 elves lost their feyness

[~Johnny~]

Diplomacy Mechanics were introduced in 3.5 to tart up the lacklustre half-elves a bit. I don't know where that idea specifically came from.

I think the idea is that half-elves have to be a bridge between the species, or that to navigate the challenges of being a half-member of whatever culture they grew up in, they have to be extra charming. It's a little narrow, perhaps, but it always made sense to me.

This seems to be something they're increasing in 4e, with mention of a half-elf's "inspiring presence" from one of the playtest reports. I think they'll have half-elves being natural leaders. Maybe they'll explain that as a positive trait that arises from the union of the two races. In the real world, I often hear comments that biracial people are particularly attractive or bright. (This is partially driven by the phenomenon of heterosis or "hybrid vigor.") Perhaps in the world of D&D, that notion is fact.

And half-elves are expected to be in the PHB, because they're shown in the mural in the inside cover of Races & Classes that has every other confirmed PHB race.

 

[sirwmholder]

Except they don't have the best abilities of either distinct race. In fact as the evidence of discussion in this thread seem to indicate they are mechanically weaker than either parent race... so how does that appease a power gamer by any stretch of the imagination? I'm confused...

Well I did they say they were invented for that purpose... every edition up to current has let the half-elf have the Elven flavor with the human versatility... let's look at 3.x.

Half-elf verses Elf
- Medium: Both
- Base land speed is 30 feet: Both
- Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects: Both
- Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions: Both
- +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks: Elves have +2
- +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks: Half-elf only
- Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
- Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Any: Half-elf versatility... aka: best of both worlds.

I did not say that is how it will be in 4e. However, I feel that with such a shaky origin the half-elf is unnecessary... as are all half-breeds. If they only exist to do it all... then they shouldn't exist.

Hope that clears up your confusion,
William Holder

 

[sirwmholder]

If I recall, in one of the articles about elves it was stated that the elves left the feywild some time back and as they've adapted to this plane, their connection to the feywild has diminished. On the other hand, the eladrin are supposed to have left much more recently than that.

See I could more easily accept that if either a) Feywild is overflowing with Arcane magic as opposed to Nature magic [the most logical solution] or b) Eladrin and Elves have a role reversal soon.

A) the Feywild is a wondrous place where Arcane magic flows from everything. Creatures are born from the wind and evaporate into light giving the plane a lushful golden radiance. Exotic flora and fauna give off sweet scents that intoxicate the senses.

An eon ago a small band of Eladrin wandered too close to mysterious Maelstrom and were sucked into the Prime Material Plane (i.e. your campaign world). Over the years of the trapped Eladrin tried to create a gateway back to their homeworld but with no success.

One day they stumbled upon a new energy source... Nature. Soon the entire Eladrin culture became infused with this new power... it gave the displaced a new purpose adopting the moniker Elves they took vows to become protectors of their new world.

Or b) the Feywild is a lush and bountiful plane of Nature... etc. etc. Elves trapped in new world adopt Arcane magic for substitute. Those left behind still tied to and defend Nature.

As it stands you basically have a group of Nature loving Elves that can't get back to the maxim opus of Nature... and a group Elves (Eladrin) that have all the Nature they can stand and now seek Arcane power. This just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyway something to think on,
William Holder

 

[Sadrik]

See I could more easily accept that if either a) Feywild is overflowing with Arcane magic as opposed to Nature magic [the most logical solution] or b) Eladrin and Elves have a role reversal soon.

A) the Feywild is a wondrous place where Arcane magic flows from everything. Creatures are born from the wind and evaporate into light giving the plane a lushful golden radiance. Exotic flora and fauna give off sweet scents that intoxicate the senses.

An eon ago a small band of Eladrin wandered too close to mysterious Maelstrom and were sucked into the Prime Material Plane (i.e. your campaign world). Over the years of the trapped Eladrin tried to create a gateway back to their homeworld but with no success.

One day they stumbled upon a new energy source... Nature. Soon the entire Eladrin culture became infused with this new power... it gave the displaced a new purpose adopting the moniker Elves they took vows to become protectors of their new world.

Or b) the Feywild is a lush and bountiful plane of Nature... etc. etc. Elves trapped in new world adopt Arcane magic for substitute. Those left behind still tied to and defend Nature.

As it stands you basically have a group of Nature loving Elves that can't get back to the maxim opus of Nature... and a group Elves (Eladrin) that have all the Nature they can stand and now seek Arcane power. This just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyway something to think on,
William Holder

And where do the Drow fit into these ideas?

 

[vulcan_idic]

Well I did they say they were invented for that purpose... every edition up to current has let the half-elf have the Elven flavor with the human versatility... let's look at 3.x.

Half-elf verses Elf
- Medium: Both
- Base land speed is 30 feet: Both
- Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects: Both
- Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions: Both
- +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks: Elves have +2
- +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks: Half-elf only
- Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
- Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Any: Half-elf versatility... aka: best of both worlds.

I did not say that is how it will be in 4e. However, I feel that with such a shaky origin the half-elf is unnecessary... as are all half-breeds. If they only exist to do it all... then they shouldn't exist.

Hope that clears up your confusion,
William Holder

I'm sorry, but I think that most power gamers would far rather have the extra feat and/or extra skill point rather than the open Favored Class. As far as power in 3x goes the feat is king/queen, skill points are a duke/duchess, and an open favored class is a small barony near the edge of the kingdom.

 

[Traycor]

As it stands you basically have a group of Nature loving Elves that can't get back to the maxim opus of Nature... and a group Elves (Eladrin) that have all the Nature they can stand and now seek Arcane power. This just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yeah, that part just seems backwards to me.

 

[BeauNiddle]

As it stands you basically have a group of Nature loving Elves that can't get back to the maxim opus of Nature... and a group Elves (Eladrin) that have all the Nature they can stand and now seek Arcane power. This just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Anyway something to think on,
William Holder

Swap it round slightly. The feywild isn't the maxim opus of nature it's the maxim opus of fey magic. The plants and beasts of the feywild aren't better due to inherent properties of the plane but due to the fact feys keep wondering around enchanting things they find beautiful and altering things they dont.

Eladrin have been surrounded by this magic all their lives and know how to work with it.

Elves, who were cut off from the magic, could no longer alter the reality around them but came to realise that nature itself is beautiful and doesn't need constant tinkering.



Eladrin have cities with sculptured gardens and topiary.
Elves have tree top cities that you don't even notice are there.


[ideally fey magic wouldn't be an arcane power source but since we only have the choice of arcane and divine I think the designers made the right choice at the moment]

 

[Beregar]

An eon ago a small band of Eladrin wandered too close to mysterious Maelstrom and were sucked into the Prime Material Plane (i.e. your campaign world). Over the years of the trapped Eladrin tried to create a gateway back to their homeworld but with no success.

I'm not sure where people seem to get this idea that Eladrin are no longer part of the Feywild. Everything said so far seems very much the opposite of it: they have race power that allows them to enter into feywild (if only briefly) and while some of their cities travel between the Feywild and normal world, majority of them dwell in the Feywild.

Anyhow, Eladrin use arcane magic because they were created by the god of magic, Corellon, and continue to revere him. Feywild was also the spot where the original Eladrin race (that was split to elves, drown and eladrin) was created to inhabit. As to the elves, I recall the R&C describes them as wanderers who pass between the natural world and feywild but prefer the forests of natural world over to "twilight realm of Feywild" or somesuch.

 

[Klaus]

Well I did they say they were invented for that purpose... every edition up to current has let the half-elf have the Elven flavor with the human versatility... let's look at 3.x.

Half-elf verses Elf
- Medium: Both
- Base land speed is 30 feet: Both
- Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects: Both
- Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions: Both
- +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks: Elves have +2
- +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks: Half-elf only
- Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
- Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Any: Half-elf versatility... aka: best of both worlds.

I did not say that is how it will be in 4e. However, I feel that with such a shaky origin the half-elf is unnecessary... as are all half-breeds. If they only exist to do it all... then they shouldn't exist.

Hope that clears up your confusion,
William Holder

You're forgetting the 4 Martial Weapon Proficiencies the elf gets (longbow, shortbow, longsword, rapier).

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think half-elf should be a feat humans can chose. With it the human gain an elven power on par of "Elven Blood: For all effects related to race."

Expanding on that we could have half-dwarfs too.