D&D 4E 1/2 Orcs in 4E (Rich Baker scoop)

[Pale Jackal]

This has no bearing on whether it's a distasteful or offensive subject to someone.

Yeah, but since rape is fact, and demons are [often] viewed as fiction (especially by the D&D crowd) it means that one is more palatable than the other to many people. And "many" is the important part.

 

[Gundark]

Why do half-orcs have to be from rape. Why couldn't it be a product of love between to species. Humans might be as brutal and ugly to Elves as Orcs are to humans, but no-one claims that half-elves are the product of rape.

Ive seen half elves in print as children of rape

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Ive seen half elves in print as children of rape

And US, humans, as the rapist generaly....

it's the stronger and more passionate side thing....



As for Tieflings, well... Except the religious devots, who really would oppose fiercely to their use? The only ones caring about that devil implications are the very relgiious ones, really.

 

[Rechan]

Yeah, but since rape is fact, and demons are [often] viewed as fiction (especially by the D&D crowd) it means that one is more palatable than the other to many people. And "many" is the important part.

And badguys consorting with demons and devils is a staple of D&D and fantasy.

Rape, not so much.

 

[The Little Raven]

This has no bearing on whether it's a distasteful or offensive subject to someone.

Forgive me if I don't see how unprovable interaction with supernatural beings is in any way comparable to the very provable and very real violation of another person.

 

[BASHMAN]

A little disappointed in their lack of cojones and/or imagination in this regard.

I can understand them not wanting to dwell much on a race created out of, basically, rape. But seriously, not every half-orc child is or should be the child of a rape. They deserve a much bigger scope than that.

I agree. I think it would be a lot less drastic of a "ret-con" to make orcs not genetically evil than the ret-cons of Tieflings are an ancient empire of dark bargainers and Dragonborn are remnants of an ancient empire-- both of which just poofed into existance.

They could say that Orcs are a warrior-like, honor obsessed, race of conquerers or barbarians who just happen to often be at odds with humans, dwarves, and elves (like next gen klingons)-- and thus completely valid to have there be half-orcs around-- just as Next Gen has so many half-klingons-- none of which were the result of rapes-- just star-crossed lovers. Next Gen klingons were revealed to have a rich, spiritual culture, with a different value system-- but not inherintly evil (as ToS often made them out to be). They could have done the same with orcs. Heck, I already did that with Orcs over a decade ago in all games I've ever run with them.

Edit: Also, doesn't putting half-orcs in the DDI seem like some sort of cheapo way of Wizards to say "See the DDI isn't worthless afterall!" If holding classic races and classes hostage for $15/month is supposed to make me want to buy into DDI, it may just get me to not even buy the PhB at all inthe first place.

 

[Voss]

Forgive me if I don't see how unprovable interaction with supernatural beings is in any way comparable to the very provable and very real violation of another person.

Because people have different points of view. It doesn't have to be your personal bugbear for it to matter.

As an observation, this thread (as a whole, not necessarily specific people) seems to be edging in on a lot of lines that aren't supposed to be crossed on this board. Perhaps its time for everyone to take a deep breath and step back?

 

[Tewligan]

Sorry, descended from humans who sold-their-souls/made infernal pacts, doesn't sound any less disturbing or ugly to me than being a product of rape. I still view both as valid sources of PC- or NPC-backstory. I also say that to be fine with the tiefling's origins but uncomfortable with the half-orc's is hypocrisy, especially given that the only ones forcing WotC to stick with the half-orc as a product of rape is WotC.

I think the difference is that, in the real world, no one was ever actually conceived as a result of an infernal pact. Rape has the potential to hit closer to home for some people.

That being said, I'm still fine with half-orcs as a product of rape - just pointing out why it's certainly reasonable for it to be more uncomfortable for some people than imaginary demon pacts might be.

 

[Rechan]

I agree. I think it would be a lot less drastic of a "ret-con" to make orcs not genetically evil than the ret-cons of Tieflings are an ancient empire of dark bargainers and Dragonborn are remnants of an ancient empire-- both of which just poofed into existance.

Except that I think that "less drastic of a ret-con" would anger more D&D players than "Poof, tiefling empire" would.

We've had enough "The 4e design is invalidating my homebrew by changing things! ORCS HAVE ALWAY BEEN EVIL SCUM TO ME" that I don't see how you couldn't forsee that reaction.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I agree. I think it would be a lot less drastic of a "ret-con" to make orcs not genetically evil than the ret-cons of Tieflings are an ancient empire of dark bargainers and Dragonborn are remnants of an ancient empire-- both of which just poofed into existance.

They could say that Orcs are a warrior-like, honor obsessed, race of conquerers or barbarians who just happen to often be at odds with humans, dwarves, and elves (like next gen klingons)-- and thus completely valid to have there be half-orcs around-- just as Next Gen has so many half-klingons-- none of which were the result of rapes-- just star-crossed lovers. Next Gen klingons were revealed to have a rich, spiritual culture, with a different value system-- but not inherintly evil (as ToS often made them out to be). They could have done the same with orcs. Heck, I already did that with Orcs over a decade ago in all games I've ever run with them.

But then, you'd hear 'ZOMG, WOTC ripped off WoW!!!'....

Not that this is one Warcraft bit that is not good to rip....