10' Step?

[Nish]

My DM got a copy of the ELH the other day and I asked him to check the high DC uses for tumble because I was curious to see how much carried over from OA, and the only I noticed as being different was the lack of the 10' step.

Now assuming that he didn't just miss it... (I'm sure someone will let me know in short order if it is actually there)

Why do you think they took it out? Would it really be that unbalancing of an ability for epic level rogues and monks? If you think that it was too powerful as originally written, what DC would you assign it if you were to put it back into the game?

Thanks.

 

[Crothian]

There is no 10ft step for Tumble. I imagine it was removed becasue it was too powerful.

 

[Nish]

That argument doesn't make much sense in the context of the ELH.

With a high enough Escape Artist check you can pass through a Wall of Force. Or use Spot to virtually negate the school of Illusion.

If it was too powerful as written, raise the DC.

 

[Crothian]

10ft step is very powerful. Maybe they didn't want to go that direction with it. Maybe the determined DC was so high they felt it was pointless to print. Maybe they oops and accidently left it out. We of course will never know. All I can do is offer free guesses.

 

[ForceUser@Home]

According to OA, you can attempt a DC 40 Tumble check to make a 10 foot "5-ft step." What the character is attempting to do is backflip over an opponent.

I wouldn't infer that it's not in the ELH because they don't want to allow it. It could have been omitted because of space considerations. Let's be honest - a character who can make a 10-ft step is the least of your worries in ELH-level play. I'd allow it.

 

[Nish]

Let's be honest - a character who can make a 10-ft step is the least of your worries in ELH-level play. I'd allow it.

Could you say that sometime when my DM is around?

But seriously, is there anyone out there who has played, DM'd or played along side an OA character powerful enough to reliably take advantage of this ability? If so, did you find it to be too powerful or "broken"? Did it substantially affect the dynamics of combat?

I'd like to know what exactly I'm asking for before I officially petition the DM.

 

[hong]

Could you say that sometime when my DM is around?

But seriously, is there anyone out there who has played, DM'd or played along side an OA character powerful enough to reliably take advantage of this ability? If so, did you find it to be too powerful or "broken"? Did it substantially affect the dynamics of combat?

The only OA characters who can really do this are the blade dancer and the ninja spy, both of whom get uber-bonuses to Tumble. I played a blade dancer for a short while, and even got to the stage where I could take 10 and make the DC 40 check automatically, but it never really got used. The thing is that neither of these classes are meant for full-on melee combat, which is where 5 (or 10) foot steps are most useful. Their strength is mobility. There aren't that many situations where even a 10-foot step is that great compared to just taking a normal move or using Spring Attack.

 

[Nish]

There aren't that many situations where even a 10-foot step is that great compared to just taking a normal move or using Spring Attack.

Heh. The character that I have in mind to eventually make use of this just so happens to have Spring Attack, which also can't be used in conjuction with two of her other feats: Ambidex, and TWF. At least the 10' Step would work with TWF.

And as far as no one being able to pull it off besides those two specific prestige classes: the above mentioned character is mostly just a run of the mill 12th level rogue, and she has a +22 to tumble, which means its possible for her to do it now (15% chance). By the time she's 20th level, I can easily expect her tumble modifier to be over 30, making it automatic taking 10. By the time she would make epic level, I probably wouldn't have to roll anymore.

Thanks for the input, BTW.

 

[kreynolds]

Why do you think they took it out?

Because it's way too powerful. Hell, I already banned the 5-foot step step (primarily because Mind Blank defeats it when you take the step in the same round that you get a Cleave of an AoO), so there's no way I'll allow at 10-foot step.

 

[Nish]

Re: Re: 10' Step?

Because it's way too powerful. Hell, I already banned the 5-foot step step (primarily because Mind Blank defeats it when you take the step in the same round that you get a Cleave of an AoO), so there's no way I'll allow at 10-foot step.

I suppose you think you're being 'cute'?