1E Immersion VS Thespian Acting

[Valiant]

I've seen these 2 words thrown around alot to explain the player experiance in D&D. What are the differences and similarities between these 2 terms?

I see immersion as:
1. Using your imagination to experiance the setting presented by the DM while you move about it.
2. Experiance this setting threw the PC(s) you control (you "are" that PC). This is either done threw the eyes of the PC or watching the PC (as if viewing the seen). Mental pictures aren't necessary however. But when your PC gets hit, you feel it.

3. Falling into the role of the PC but maintaining your out of game personality. The point isn't that you take on a new personality, rather "its you" only with a new body and skills you don't really have in real life.

Thespian Acting (as used in this site) seems to relate to the player who:
1. Acts out everything in 1st person, where imagination takes back seat to entertaining friends. Whats important isn't the show going on in your heads but the show going on at the table.
2. Typically the player falls into the role of the PC and attempts to loose their real life personality (or identity). This is difficult to express in words. It reminds me of character actors who try to become that personality (leaving there own).
3. Its heavily story driven usually (at least at its most annoying).

Would you agree with these definitions? I realize in 2E immersion seems to change in meaning, and then again in 3E, thats why I've limited it to 1E (and OD&D as well I suppose).

 

[Doug McCrae]

I usually expect immersion to mean what you described as sense 2 of 'Thespian Acting'*, a very deep form of acting where one gets totally into character and experiences everything from the character's point of view. It is, I think, very rare in roleplaying. I've certainly never immersed in this sense, being a very superficial actor at best.

The Forge glossary has this to say (disagreeing with me):

This term has no single definition. Some uses, among others, include: (a) undivided attention to the Shared Imagined Space, (b) the absence of overtly stating features of Social Contract and Creative Agenda, (c) strong identification with one's imaginary character.

 

[Valiant]

I think I mostly agree with those 3 Forge definitions of immersion. Perhaps one important destinction is that with immersion all 3 of those things could occur without the player ever talking in 1st person or "acting out" at the table. While Thespian Acting requires "acting out" at the table in first person, and doesn't require definitions 1-3. A thespian actor can, however, do both (immerse and act) of course (though with Thespian acting its usually so "over the top" that no one can concentrate on their imaginations (and are constantly dragged back to the table), thus destroying the intended purpose of the game (ie. players moving around in the DMs imaginary world).

 

[maddman75]

You seem to be implying that 'Immersion' is RightGoodFun and 'Thespian Roleplaying' is WrongBadFun. I see no dichotomy between the two myself. I've never gamed with someone who didn't speak in character, even playing 1e. This style of gaming is foreign to me, but I'm not going to say that people who do it this way are wrong or bad.

If a new player showed up though and didn't play in character, I'd personally think that they either didn't 'get' RPGs or weren't having any fun, and try to bring them out of their shell.

 

[diaglo]

i roll the dice. and then i use my imagination to make stuff up.

i roleplay what i want.

immersion or not.

 

[Crothian]

(though with Thespian acting its usually so "over the top" that no one can concentrate on their imaginations (and are constantly dragged back to the table), thus destroying the intended purpose of the game (ie. players moving around in the DMs imaginary world).

I'd guess you've played with some pretty bad role players then. This is not my experience. When a good Thespian actor role plays he helps keep everyone else in character and enhances the experience for everyone.

 

[Cheiromancer]

You seem to be implying that 'Immersion' is RightGoodFun and 'Thespian Roleplaying' is WrongBadFun. I see no dichotomy between the two myself. I've never gamed with someone who didn't speak in character, even playing 1e. This style of gaming is foreign to me, but I'm not going to say that people who do it this way are wrong or bad.

If a new player showed up though and didn't play in character, I'd personally think that they either didn't 'get' RPGs or weren't having any fun, and try to bring them out of their shell.

I didn't get that impression myself. (About RightGoodFun and WrongBadFun). It sounds like some Thespian Roleplayers that Valiant has encountered have hogged the spotlight or have been excessively dramatic (shouting and jumping about or something), but I don't feel a value judgment is being made between the two approaches.

The difference is kinda like reading a play and acting it out. In the former all the action is inside your head- in the latter you get to see the other actors, and so you don't have to imagine as much. That's my take on it, anyway.

 

[maddman75]

I didn't get that impression myself. (About RightGoodFun and WrongBadFun). It sounds like some Thespian Roleplayers that Valiant has encountered have hogged the spotlight or have been excessively dramatic (shouting and jumping about or something), but I don't feel a value judgment is being made between the two approaches.

The difference is kinda like reading a play and acting it out. In the former all the action is inside your head- in the latter you get to see the other actors, and so you don't have to imagine as much. That's my take on it, anyway.

Sorry, but I parsed this

A thespian actor can, however, do both (immerse and act) of course (though with Thespian acting its usually so "over the top" that no one can concentrate on their imaginations (and are constantly dragged back to the table), thus destroying the intended purpose of the game (ie. players moving around in the DMs imaginary world).

as 'people who play in character ruin the game.'

 

[Cheiromancer]

Yeah, I can see that now. I was reading "usually" as "sometimes (at least in the author's experience)" but I can see how it can come across as a lot stronger.

 

[Valiant]

Madman, I said that players can do both (immerse and act at the table) we do that now and then as well (and I agree with the above poster, doing this right can help with immersion). However, we don't consider that "thespian acting", its more talking in 1st person (staying most in our minds) and usually done by the DM (to inflect the personality of the bar keep for instance (a picture is worth a 1000 words). Thats a far cry from all out crazyness, where immersion takes second seat to "look what a great actor I am".

Q: "I'd guess you've played with some pretty bad role players then". Ha, you have no idea.