The Portal of Scintillating Violet is extremely tough -- an almost guaranteed PC killer no matter what level you are -- but like you said it's totally avoidable (unless you get teleported to area 27.A, which will only happen if you've made some pretty dumb decisions (and thus, by the logic of the module, proven yourself deserving of death)).thedungeondelver said:
1st-level characters in the Tomb of Horrors
- Thread starter Quasqueton
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Gentlegamer
Adventurer
IIRC from all reports, both Tenser and Robilar didn't fight the demi-lich. They both grabbed as much of his treasure as possible and left when the skull started levitating.
As for levels, Robilar expended a number of orc followers to "disarm" traps throughout the tomb. In his case, being name level was very useful.
As for levels, Robilar expended a number of orc followers to "disarm" traps throughout the tomb. In his case, being name level was very useful.
thedungeondelver
Adventurer
My own tactic regarding the Tomb of Horrors would be (since I'd be at or past Name level before attempting it) to take an entire retinue of 300+ hirelings including dwarven engineers, clerics, etc. ad nauseam to the site with me and set it up like an archaeological dig from the top of the hill down. A few disintigrate spells, the dwarves shoring up shafts and digging away the soil, crack teams of men-at-arms to stave off any local wandering monsters, clerics standing by to cure or bless as needed, oh and maybe a high level druid ready to cast control weather to drive the perpetual gloom away.
Wouldn't be any of this "Oh hey let's all go to some horrible remote part of the world by ourselves and potentially DIE without any backup at all."
Mark Hope
Hero
The four-armed gargoyle can be avoided, either by correctly using the archway of mists to teleport to area #11, or by going from the Forsaken Prison (#7), through the crawlway and the hidden trapdoor into the Chamber of the Three Chests (#13) and out into the Great Hall of Spheres (#10).T. Foster said:
Nah, they didn't do either of those -- they avoided the archways altogether and went through the room-maze with the secret doors. I must've nerfed the gargoyle to make it challenge-appropriate to a 1st level party (or maybe they employed some sort of outside-the-box thinking to beat/avoid it without actually fighting it -- these players were really very clever and resourceful and continually surprised me; going in I had fully expected the dungeon to chew them up and spit them out).Mark Hope said:
Celebrim
Legend
Yes.
Tomb of Horrors is all but completable by carefully played 1st level characters, preferably with a minimal ammount of magical equipment (rope of climbing, 2-3 potions of flying, and a ring of protection +1 should do it), although strictly speaking its not necessary to have anything but mundane equipment (just really easier with the good stuff).
The only thing being higher level gets you is the ability to survive some of the lesser traps. But, most of the infamous traps are of the 'death no save' variaty, and neither hit points nor a good saving throw are of any help. All of the traps, lesser or greater, can be bypassed, except for one. The last one. Acerak himself.
Assuming completing the adventure involves simply opening Acerak's tomb and pillaging it, a 1st level party will suffice. But if completing the adventure involves actually destroying the demi-lich, then you need a 14th level party and in my opinion, you also need to cheat. Acerak's weaknesses are so obscure and arbitrary, his invunerabilities so numerous, and the rate in which he destroys characters without a saving throw so high, that unless the players had read the adventure before hand, they'd have to rely on stumbling on to right tactics literally by accident and they simply could not survive long enough to do this. The only way to beat Acerak is to beat him on the first or perhaps second round, and to do that requires absolute preparation and perfect tactics on the part of everyone in the party. You either deal the 50 hitpoints of damage (via obscure means) or the majority of it in the first round, are you are never going to.
So, yeah, I can see that its possible for a really skilled group to take 1st level characters through the tomb. But I'm not sure I'd believe anyone that told me that they'd destroyed the demi-lich against a tough DM that ran the module as written hand aving no hints as to what was in the text.
Tomb of Horrors is all but completable by carefully played 1st level characters, preferably with a minimal ammount of magical equipment (rope of climbing, 2-3 potions of flying, and a ring of protection +1 should do it), although strictly speaking its not necessary to have anything but mundane equipment (just really easier with the good stuff).
The only thing being higher level gets you is the ability to survive some of the lesser traps. But, most of the infamous traps are of the 'death no save' variaty, and neither hit points nor a good saving throw are of any help. All of the traps, lesser or greater, can be bypassed, except for one. The last one. Acerak himself.
Assuming completing the adventure involves simply opening Acerak's tomb and pillaging it, a 1st level party will suffice. But if completing the adventure involves actually destroying the demi-lich, then you need a 14th level party and in my opinion, you also need to cheat. Acerak's weaknesses are so obscure and arbitrary, his invunerabilities so numerous, and the rate in which he destroys characters without a saving throw so high, that unless the players had read the adventure before hand, they'd have to rely on stumbling on to right tactics literally by accident and they simply could not survive long enough to do this. The only way to beat Acerak is to beat him on the first or perhaps second round, and to do that requires absolute preparation and perfect tactics on the part of everyone in the party. You either deal the 50 hitpoints of damage (via obscure means) or the majority of it in the first round, are you are never going to.
So, yeah, I can see that its possible for a really skilled group to take 1st level characters through the tomb. But I'm not sure I'd believe anyone that told me that they'd destroyed the demi-lich against a tough DM that ran the module as written hand aving no hints as to what was in the text.
While I agree that the chances of a party stumbling upon the correct means of defeating the demilich accidentally and in the heat of an actual engagement are vanishingly small (and that any party that does so has almost certainly read the module, or at least the demilich monster description in S4 or the MM2), withdrawing from the encounter (after probably suffering a fatality or two), conducting extensive research via magic (commune, contact higher plane, etc.) and/or sages to learn the weaknesses, and then going back forearmed with knowledge for a second engagement seems perfectly viable. There's no urgency or time limit in the TOH as-written, no reason the entire thing must be completed in a single expedition (and, of course, no real reason Acererak must be fought at all -- unless the DM has added to the backstory on his own, the party's motivation in this adventure is recovering the treasure, not destroying the demilich).Celebrim said:
Joshua Randall
Legend
In Return to the Tomb of Horrors, Gygax recounts the tale of how one particularly clever player's character destroyed Acererak --
the PC placed the crown (from earlier in the dungeon) on the skull, then touched it with the gold/silver end of the scepter (whichever is appropriate -- I can't remember), disintegrating the skull!
Celebrim
Legend
Sejs said:
A rogue is handy for the adventure, but not essential to its completion. For example, the pits can be easily found by the expedient of filling up small sacks with the 50 lbs or so of loose dirt and throwing them into the space ahead of the party. There are any number of other tricks. A first level halfling rogue scouting ahead of a stout fighter or two with a rope about the waist of both will avoid a significant fraction of the traps without any loses - including some of the most infamous ones like the dead end corridors of party annihilation. Remember, you are under no time pressure and are facing (at least in the original text) nothing in the way of active resistance to your advancing through the dungeon.
As I recall, no spells are actually required to do anything but defeat the demi-lich.
All of the fights are avoidable through a combination of luck and good play, and none of them are particularly difficult. In fact, a high level party breezes through them, and they are more appropriate for about 5th level in terms of challenge that they provide. The only fight that is actually along the best path of play is not overly difficult for a 1st level party and has a trick that allows it to be won by a party of clutzy 0 level commoners with AT MOST one death.
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