1st level forever: an experiment

[Gez]

To solve that, you could split each level into several steps. Every character gets one HP every now and then, one point of BAB, one point of one saving throw, one skill point, one special ability (maybe after an appropriate quest), until they get the full level. It would take a bit of tweaking, but it could work.

That was an idea I had. Sublevels you can take in the order you want, and that correspond to your next level. HD, BAB, saves, skill points, class abilities (including spells).

For a slow advancement, make each of these a whole level. I.E., once they are level 6, they will have the power of level 2 characters, since they will have spent 5 levels buying the 5 ability sublevels.

Advancing the character is half the fun of D&D (well, nearly). If you statically keep your 1st level abilities, it's going to be frustrating after a while. Good enough for a shortlived campaign or one-shot adventure, but for something more long, the players will want their character to learn a few new tricks.

 

[Doug McCrae]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives.

I think you're a Monty Haul DM. All my players have to play commoners at 1st level forever. With one leg. And they don't get any treasure at all.

 

[TerraDave]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives. Suddenly kobolds remain dangerous, as do 20' pits. I haven't tried this myself yet, but have thought about it and was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts, besides the nonuseful "Your idea Suxxors!".

A low treasure game (or one were treasure did not provide xps) in 1st or 2nd edition could be close to this....

As suggested by others, slow advancement could be an alternative. Going from say 1st to 4th would allow for some pretty significant advancement in terms of power, but would stay basically low level. If stretched out over too long, and you might see the limits of a level based system, with long periods of no change followed by relatively large jumps in power.

You could just use the 1st level PCs as a base, but have alternate advancement. for example, every few sessions, they gain an additional HP and a few skill points. It would remain pretty grim and gritty, while allowing for a gradual build up in capability.

 

[Desdichado]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives. Suddenly kobolds remain dangerous, as do 20' pits. I haven't tried this myself yet, but have thought about it and was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts, besides the nonuseful "Your idea Suxxors!".

I like slower advancement, and I like lower level, and I like grim n gritty.

Still, I don't much like this teh suxx0rz idea.

I think using something like Ken Hood's Grim n Gritty hit points resolution does the same thing, but at least allows for characters to improve in other aspects, such as skill points, occasionally picking up feats, getting BAB increases, etc.

The other alternative, of course, is to play a game that features a more granular advancement to begin with, like GURPS maybe Blue Rose.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think it would be an awful idea.

However, and idea that might be interesting is "Everyone is 3rd level all the time" - children being 1st, teens being 2nd and adults being 3rd (possibly include additional levels for additional age categories). At least the classes have each got their "distinctive abilities" by then.

Thus the party is on a pretty even keel with everyone.

Advancement wouldn't be by capabilities, but by items, money and social standing.

That might work IMO

 

[Tonguez]

I agree level 1 for eva isn't good (although level 3 for ever might work)

Personal I'd implement a rule along the lines of at every 2500xp you gain one feat which can be used to improve your character (by buying extra skill points (stackable skill focus?), increase BAb (as a skill), increase HP (Toughness?) or an 'ability' (Dodge). I'd also go as far as making all the level 1 class abilities into feats and allowing a feat to be used as an extra spell slot (spells are refered to as Feats of Magic in the rules)

 

[the Jester]

Interesting thought. I'd be more prone to leave hps out- or each level allow the character to choose hp, skill points, feats, save boni, or class abilities. No multiclassing until you've taken everything for the class & level that you're in?

 

[tigycho]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives. Suddenly kobolds remain dangerous, as do 20' pits.

I wouldn't enjoy playing this game. Spellcasters would never get any spells beyond what they could capture from enemy spell books, or transcribe from scrolls, and even then, there are only so many spells out there at lvl 1 and 0. Plus, they'd only be one shot wimps for the entire game.

Fighter-types would dominate, for certain. But, then, since you'd never get any better, the fact that kobolds remain a threat also means that kobolds are the only threat you are qualified to handle.

If you give out items to allow the party to advance, they will be forced to rely on these items, since they can't do anything without them... A lot of people think that's already a problem with 3e at the higher levels, and this idea would simply bring the problem all the way into the lowest levels.

My personal take on it is that, if you want low levels creatures and 20' pits to stay dangerous is to scale back hit point gains, or use Grim'n'Gritty combat rules, and leave everything else alone.

Or, you could use Buy The Numbers by Sigil for characters and scale UP the cost of buying hitpoints significantly. That way, you can remove the XP cost that larger hit dice for a class represent from the leveling up formula, letting those who want to have more HP spend through the teeth for it... the market economy of balanceing hit dice with other cool abilities will reduce the player's tendency to buy more than a few dice of hit points.

I love Buy the Numbers, by the way.

 

[Rackhir]

Frankly from what it sounds like you are looking for, you'd be better off playing something like Gurps, which enforces a much more "normal human" range of abilities. It's a point based system for character creation. So you've got say 150 pts to buy your stats and skills and abilities with. Given that you are generally only handing out a few points for character improvement and it's very high cost for boosting stats and abilities past a fairly moderate range. (The char points for increasing a stat or skill essentially double for each increment.) People will not be turning into the "Superheroes" that you get in high level D&D.

D&D is intended for "heroic" game play, if you want to keep them as dirt scratchers you are better off using a different system.

 

[MonsterMash]

What do you think of this as a possible "Grim and Gritty" experiment? Just don't give experience points, ever, when running a D&D game (in any of its incarnations). The characters remain 1st level for their entire lives. Suddenly kobolds remain dangerous, as do 20' pits. I haven't tried this myself yet, but have thought about it and was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts, besides the nonuseful "Your idea Suxxors!".

Of course as 1st level characters they probably wouldn;t last all that long so their lives would be nasty, brutish and short. Even as a diehard RQ player no advancement would be horrific (ok in RQ your hitpoints went up very slowly, but at least your skills could improve steadily).

In my campaign I use a slower levelling by changing the XP chart, doubling the amounts required for each level, e.g. 2nd = 2000, 3rd = 6000, etc.

You could use something like 1 or 2 hp per extra level + con modifier so that players get low numbers of hit points at higher levels making combat more lethal. What would you do about monsters HD and HP?