2 Handed Ranged rules

[jontherev]

Howdy. Our party is up against 3 (after killing 2!) paragon sorceror mind flayers, so I need to eke out as much damage as possible...SO....

If I take the Brutal Throw and the other Complete Adventurer's ranged feat (that lets you power attack w/ranged weapons...sorry...brainfarting on the name of the feat), I can now use my strength bonus to hit and damage as well as power attack just like in melee. Now, my question is...would you also be able to increase stength damage and/or power attack damage by throwing it 2-handed?

Next question...if I take the Exotic Weapon Master stunt that lets you double your stength bonus on damage with a melee weapon, I'm wondering if this would also apply to ranged attacks? I'm pretty sure if you read it literally, it would apply. A dwarven waraxe is still a melee weapon even if I throw it.

I think my DM will allow all of this, but I wanted to see if anyone knew of an actual ruling on any of this.

And in case you're wondering why a 20th level fighter-type is trying to maximize damage output using a ranged weapon, I have the Ax of the Dwarvish Lords (revised to include the RETURNING ability...what idiot would throw an artifact that doesn't return?), which is one of the only things our party has that can damage these beasts. And these monsters have an AC and SR over 50 and can dish out major damage in melee even in an antimagic zone. Thanks!

 

[frankthedm]

If I take the Brutal Throw and the other Complete Adventurer's ranged feat (that lets you power attack w/ranged weapons...sorry...brainfarting on the name of the feat), I can now use my strength bonus to hit and damage as well as power attack just like in melee. Now, my question is...would you also be able to increase stength damage and/or power attack damage by throwing it 2-handed?

No.

Next question...if I take the Exotic Weapon Master stunt that lets you double your stength bonus on damage with a melee weapon, I'm wondering if this would also apply to ranged attacks? I'm pretty sure if you read it literally, it would apply. A dwarven waraxe is still a melee weapon even if I throw it.

No it is not. It is now a [possibly improvised] thrown weapon.

I think my DM will allow all of this, but I wanted to see if anyone knew of an actual ruling on any of this.

If the DM allows these, are you ready to see giants doing this to your party with their boulders?

 

[Stalker0]

No. No it is not. It is now a [possibly improvised] thrown weapon. If the DM allows these, are you ready to see giants doing this to your party with their boulders?

If he's fighting 3 PARAGON mindflayer sorcs, I don't think some giants with boulders would be a problem

 

[frankthedm]

If he's fighting 3 PARAGON mindflayer sorcs, I don't think some giants with boulders would be a problem

Giant can go epic too. But hey, at epic all bets are off and the OP thinks the DM will be cool with it. I wish him the best of luck. Heck, brutal throw does feel like a better fit at epic anyways.

 

[jontherev]

If I take the Brutal Throw and the other Complete Adventurer's ranged feat (that lets you power attack w/ranged weapons...sorry...brainfarting on the name of the feat), I can now use my strength bonus to hit and damage as well as power attack just like in melee. Now, my question is...would you also be able to increase stength damage and/or power attack damage by throwing it 2-handed?

no

Is that your opinion or is this errata or sage advice? Are you saying this because you think it's too powerful? If so, why? It's only usually 1 attack per round. I do LOADS more damage on a full attack in melee. I'm just trying to widen my horizon now...throwing the ax of all axes is fun.

No. No it is not. It is now a [possibly improvised] thrown weapon. If the DM allows these, are you ready to see giants doing this to your party with their boulders?

A melee weapon with the throwing and returning abilities becomes a melee and ranged weapon as far as I can tell. Our spellcasters would most likely lay waste to that group of giants before I could engage them in melee. But to answer your question, sure why not? I've never had an encounter with Giants that stayed at range long enough to matter. If a party gets surprised by a bunch of Giants, they deserve to be killed.

 

[werk]

It's only usually 1 attack per round. I do LOADS more damage on a full attack in melee. I'm just trying to widen my horizon now...throwing the ax of all axes is fun.

Get quick draw and a quiver full of dwarven axes then.

I think there is a Throw Anything feat or ability somewhere... It lets you throw melee weapons as you've decribed, otherwise, improvised weapon rules apply.

FWIW, my answers agree with Frank's. There is no two-handed throwing mechanic, and exotic weapon master is for melee.

 

[MarkB]

A melee weapon with the throwing and returning abilities becomes a melee and ranged weapon as far as I can tell.

As the saying goes, it's not what you've got, it's how you use it. When you hit someone with a weapon in melee, it's a melee weapon. When you throw it at them, it's a thrown weapon.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

FWIW, my answers agree with Frank's. There is no two-handed throwing mechanic, and exotic weapon master is for melee.

There is a two-handed throwing mechanic, under "Stone Giant" in the Monster Manual. The text notes that stone giants use both hands when throwing rocks, and the resultant damage is 2d8+12 (so 1.5 times the giant's +8 Strength bonus).

 

[IcyCool]

Is that your opinion or is this errata or sage advice? Are you saying this because you think it's too powerful? If so, why? It's only usually 1 attack per round. I do LOADS more damage on a full attack in melee. I'm just trying to widen my horizon now...throwing the ax of all axes is fun.

The wording of the feats is important here. Could you clarify them, or at least name the Power Attack feat?

A melee weapon with the throwing and returning abilities becomes a melee and ranged weapon as far as I can tell.

It is a melee weapon when used as a melee weapon, and a throwing weapon when used as a throwing weapon, much like a dagger. Benefits and penalties that apply to throwing weapons only apply when it is used as a throwing weapon.

 

[jontherev]

Get quick draw and a quiver full of dwarven axes then.

I think there is a Throw Anything feat or ability somewhere... It lets you throw melee weapons as you've decribed, otherwise, improvised weapon rules apply.

FWIW, my answers agree with Frank's. There is no two-handed throwing mechanic, and exotic weapon master is for melee.

EWM is not for melee...it is just general for exotic weapons. It does have more melee than ranged stunts though.

I prefer to stick with the one weapon. I think the original Ax of the Dwarvish Lords from 1st edition required you to give up ALL other weapons. This version (3.5, but revised a little by me and the DM) doesn't have that stipulation, but I'm kinda sticking to it. I just throw it when I need to...I'm mostly interested in melee.