2 questions from last night's session

[cvrinn]

1. When you roll opposing ability checks for an action(in this case, strength checks for a bull rush), is a 20 considered an automatic win? My monk was bull rushed by an ogre. I rolled a 20(22 total) and my DM ruled that I successfully defended against the bull rush even though I couldn't actually beat the ogres score(around 34 total). I am glad it worked in my favor, but it sounds somewhat illogical.

2. One of the other characters made an amulet of Kaupaer's Skittish Nerves(a spell from Magic of Faerun). It constantly gives him a +5 bonus to initiative checks. Following the rules from the DMG it only costs 4,000g(1x1x2000x2g). Does this seem too cheap to anyone else? I would think that at that price most characters would want this spell in an item assuming they had an open slot. I believe you can put it on most types of items as well so you may easily have a space open for it.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Henrix]

1) No, there's no such thing as an automatic success on ability checks. A bat (str1) can't break down a sturdy door (break DC 23), no matter how many times it bashes into it.

2) That sounds far too cheap. The DMG only gives guidelines for prices, and especially on continous use items duplicating spells this may be way off the mark.

 

[BSF]

Regarding the Amulet - The DMG provides guidelines. This is far too cheap. In 3.5 they upped the cost of a glove to storing to 10,000 because it essentially replaces a feat (quick draw). At minimum, the item should cost 10,000 because it is the same as the Improved Initiative feat.

3.5 also revised the creation rules with a footnote for continuous items: If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

I don't know the duration of the spell in general, but if it is short duration, this might bump the cost up to a more reasonable area. Of course, MoF was written for 3.0. You might still be playing a 3.0 game. If not, then that particular spell might need to be nerfed in line with the 3.5 spell nerfing.

Alternatively, you could also use the Artificer's Handbook for item creation. This is a significant revamp of item creation and does not rely on money/exp as the primary limiter of item creation. Instead, the crafter must have sufficient spell slots to create the item. Bumping short duration spells to a continuous effect requires significantly more spell slots.

 

[tensen]

2. One of the other characters made an amulet of Kaupaer's Skittish Nerves(a spell from Magic of Faerun). It constantly gives him a +5 bonus to initiative checks. Following the rules from the DMG it only costs 4,000g(1x1x2000x2g). Does this seem too cheap to anyone else? I would think that at that price most characters would want this spell in an item assuming they had an open slot. I believe you can put it on most types of items as well so you may easily have a space open for it.

Thanks for your input.

Well. that one will always be too cheap for its effect. Definitely something that is a DM ruling. Initiative checks are unfortunately not something they set a cost to. But to have a 4k item be better than a feat is pretty unbalancing.

But I am wondering about the cost. Initiative is not something an amulet has affinity to, so thats a 1.5 multiplier. Not knowing the spell in general I'm assuming it lasts rounds.. so a x4 multiplier. The use activated at 1st level 1x1x2000.

Still pretty cheap for something that would be a rogue's dream.

I would think it would follow the rules of other ability boosts at the bonus squared. But all in all, if the DM wishes to have it that way, so be it... their game... theirs to balance the costs. Technically a house rule for most magic item creation that deviates from the basic ones listed anyway.

 

[tensen]

1. When you roll opposing ability checks for an action(in this case, strength checks for a bull rush), is a 20 considered an automatic win? My monk was bull rushed by an ogre. I rolled a 20(22 total) and my DM ruled that I successfully defended against the bull rush even though I couldn't actually beat the ogres score(around 34 total). I am glad it worked in my favor, but it sounds somewhat illogical.

No autosuccess. But having a DM that allows that is fun. And thats part of the game. It means they gave you a chance... of course I have found that a good number of times when you have impossible odds and tell someone.. sure it can happen if you just roll a 20... seems that it happens more times than the odds can account for.

 

[cvrinn]

1. Yeah, I didn't think there was an autosuccess for those checks, but it did turn out to be an interesting and funny part of the session. My monk stunned a wizard he was fighting. The guy had only one leg and had to drop his crutch(because of the stun), but because of my typically horrible rolls I could hardly touch him even though he was stunned and prone(he had mage armor and shield still up). Then this big ogre runs up to bullrush me and I roll a 20 and stop him cold. So give me a basically helpless wizard and I am at a loss, but a charging ogre brings out my best.

2. I thought it was a way underpriced item. The calculations as I recall are as follows: (continuous) spell level x caster level x 2,000g x 2(1 min/level) that means: 1 x 1 x 2,000 x 2 = 4,000g. The spell was not updated for 3.5 as far as I know, but the Players Guide to Faerun(which is 3.5) does mention it on the comprehensive spell lists and doesn't mention any changes. It also was not erratted in the original book.

Thanks again.

 

[FireLance]

Well. that one will always be too cheap for its effect. Definitely something that is a DM ruling. Initiative checks are unfortunately not something they set a cost to. But to have a 4k item be better than a feat is pretty unbalancing.

Well, a +1 weapon is "better" than Weapon Focus, and it only costs around 2,000 gp.

But apart from that, consider that +2 Gloves of Dexterity, which increase your initiative modifier by +1 on top of AC, ranged attack bonus and Dex-based skill checks, are priced at 4,000 gp. An item which simply gives a +1 bonus to initiative should cost less, perhaps 1,000 gp x bonus squared. An item which gives a +5 bonus on initiative checks should then cost 25,000 gp.