2 Weapon Feat Build

[JimAde]

What I'm saying is that regardless of what the DMG says, the kusari-gama should not be able to do damage with reach (and thus can't be used for reach Sneak Attack). I could see it doing the trip/disarm thing (only) at range and regular damage (only) adjacent. I suppose you could trip with the blade just like a regular sickle.

So, if you use it like this, it's not really broken as an exotic weapon. It's less powerful than a spiked chain and has the advantage of being an actual real-world double weapon.

 

[Jarrod]

Mmm skill-monkey builds.

You can get weapons further enhanced; in general, you pay the difference between the new cost and old cost. YDMMV (your DM may vary) So, taking a +1 dagger to a +1 flaming dagger would cost (8000 - 2000) = 6000 gold. Note that the +1 equivalents add up; it'll get very expensive.

If you want to use TWF, you need to full-attack to get the benefits. If you do that, you're spending at least one round sitting next to the bad guy. It can _sting_.

In general, the best way I've found to play a rogue is to decide how you're going to get your sneak attack, and let that guide your combat style (and feat choices). I'm not trying to convince you not to play TWF; more to show other options.

I've seen or played the following rogue combos:

Archer, full attack, attacked flat-footed enemies. Started with hide and firing every other round; now has a ring of blinking. Took a while to get the ring.
Archer/Melee, single attack, attacked FF enemies. Went Shadowdancer to get HiPS.
Melee, TWF short sword, flanker. Took a lot of punishment, but ouch.
Melee, Dagger-flurry, Invisible Blade-bluffer. Hasn't seen a lot of action yet (high-level one-shot), but managed to not get flattened by the raging barbarian

Another option, actually, is go the Spring Attack route. Get in, slice, get out. Play up Mobility and Tumble, and try to get your land movement speed up.

Finally, see if you can convince your GM to let you either have Weapon Finesse at 1st or hang on to the feat until 2nd when you fulfill the prereqs. Neither are RAW, but your dex is likely to be a _lot_ higher than your str, and I've always been annoyed that baby rogues spend the first two levels with jack and suddenly get this _huge_ bonus to hit.

 

[Sil]

What I'm saying is that regardless of what the DMG says, the kusari-gama should not be able to do damage with reach

Why?

 

[two]

Not to be a naysayer, but Rogue builds built for damage using two-weapon attacks and sneak attack die often, very often.

As stated already, your HP and Con together are atrocious.

Your AC will likely lag behind the fighter's significantly, given your not-great dex and aversion to heavier armor/no shield. Plus no feats available (even Dodge) due to 2-weapon focus.

This adds up to "full attack me now, I'm easy to hit, oops I just died."

Seriously, you will be one full attack from a melee-capable baddie away from death. EVERY time you close. Even at full hit points. Your Rogue10 will have, what? 40 hit points? Maybe 60 with a good con boost item? That's about 1.5 rounds of full attacks, at best. Maybe. By level10, stuff can easily do 30 per hit, and good lord -- if you are grappled, you are so dead. Max out Escape Artist, just do it.

A reach weapon will help, but not enough. The answer is a Rogue/fighter mix as everyone suggested.

Straight rogues are not meant to trade full attacks. They just can't. I've never seen one that managed the trick -- at least longer than 3-4 combats.

*ignoring all the situations when the rogue can't even get sneak attack damage, in which case the rogue damage dealer is completely useless. I'm being nice.*

If you really really really MUST play a straight Rogue Damage Dealer, I'd suggest (minimally) a cloak of displacement (minor or major), Ring of Blinking, and reading a scroll of Mirror Image using UMD before any battle. Screw AC. Just make yourself impossible to hit.

 

[sleepystyle]

Hmmm....

Well it's not what I was hoping to hear, but I can't really argue with the wisdom of the boards. Your comments sound pretty right on and I haven't yet invested anything into the twf build. Mainly I'm a little bored with my other character's (bard/rogue) ranged only crossbow attacks and thought I'd take things in the other direction with this one. I'll poke around and try to find a better focus that won't get me killed the 1st time I use it. Thanks for the advice.

 

[JimAde]

Why?

Because the weapon is a hand-held sickle with a length of weighted rope or chain attached to the handle. The way it's used is to entangle/trip/disarm with the rope, then close and slice with the blade. You don't swing the blade at the end of the rope. And the weight on the rope isn't for doing damage, it's for making the rope swing correctly.

It's still a cool idea for an exotic weapon and well worth taking, but not quite as broken as if you let it do reach slashing damage.

Now I'm no expert on any of this stuff, but I'm pretty confident that's the intended usage of a kusari-gama.

 

[Sil]

oh, so it is a "reality is not like this" argument?

sleepystyle, did you read the link i posted?

 

[Jarrod]

Hmmm....

Well it's not what I was hoping to hear, but I can't really argue with the wisdom of the boards. Your comments sound pretty right on and I haven't yet invested anything into the twf build. Mainly I'm a little bored with my other character's (bard/rogue) ranged only crossbow attacks and thought I'd take things in the other direction with this one. I'll poke around and try to find a better focus that won't get me killed the 1st time I use it. Thanks for the advice.

Take a look at the spring attack tree. The entire idea is to get in, slice their throat, and get out.

As for impossible... not particularly, just difficult at low-mid levels. If you're going toe-to-toe you need to make them miss you. Given the way the rules work, that means either sky-high AC or miss chances.

Given rogues are stuck with light armor, getting a high AC means dipping for stat-to-AC boosts. It gets kinda cheesy after a while, but it is effective.

Miss chances: blur, blink, invisibility, incorporeality (heh... ghost rogue with a ghost touch dagger). Expensive in terms of items, or get really chummy with a caster.


In a complete change of topic, how about a caster/rogue combo? There's always the Arcane Trickster, and Complete Adventurer added the Daggerspell Mage and Daggerspell Shaper, along with a wonderous array of quickened spells to cast.

 

[IcyCool]

oh, so it is a "reality is not like this" argument?

It struck me as a "the Kusari-gama as written is out of whack on the balance scale, here is what I'd do to bring it in line." argument.

 

[JimAde]

No, it's a "I think this is what they intended based on the way I've seen the weapon used in cinematic sources" argument. Also balance, but I honestly think this must be what they intended.

I'm speaking from ignorance in that I haven't actually seen the text of the DMG (have to check it when I get home) but the blade stays in your hand the whole time. I don't see what else they could have meant.