20 levels of Race?

Though this might not fit in the core book, I'd like to see a rules module where all PC races can advance to 20th racial level.

So that a 20th-level PC could be Dwarf 10 Fighter 10, or even just a Dwarf 20.

This would be a further evolution of the 3e Savage Species and BECMI Creature Crucibles.

What do you think of this?

We've seen a few racial levels, but what would 20 levels of Dwarf look like? Would they become Racial Paragons? Keepers of the Forges of Power, like in BECMI D&D?
 
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The idea of a 20-level race is certainly interesting. Whether it comes in the form of 20 levels that can be taken as if it were a class or perhaps as 20 levels acquired simultaneously with 20 class levels, it opens up some interesting possibilities.

Of course, it is really hard to come up with 20 levels of dwarf, or 20 levels of elf. This is mostly because dwarves and elves are basically just reflavored humans. This is part of the reason that I'm not terribly fond of using those races as the benchmark for race design. They are ultimately just slight tweaks on humans, and are better implemented through subrace mechanics than race mechanics. That said, it might be interesting to see dwarves who slowly gain invincible stone bodies and mastery of all forms of crafting and mechanisms and elves who slowly gain control over nature, magic, and fey powers.

A 20 level race is a lot easier to implement with races of a more exaggerated sort. Pixies who gain greater magical powers, nymphs that improve their control over the forces of the natural world, lycanthropes that gain more powerful beast forms, vampires that gain greater powers of darkness, etc.
 


I suspect there would be far fewer choices to make when taking a race level than a class level. So one level 20 dwarf would strongly resemble another, while two level 20 fighters might be quite different.

But perhaps some of the dwarf levels could be different depending on what class levels you have (assuming you have at least one class level). For example:

DWARF LEVEL 7 options:
EXPERT MINER, plus choose one of the following:
AXE MASTERY prerequisite: none
SUMMON EARTH ELEMENTAL prerequisite: arcane spellcasting
STAND FIRM prerequisite: martial class level
MORADIN'S FAVOR prerequisite: divine spellcasting
ASPECT OF STONE prerequisite: primal spellcasting
CAVERN CRAWLER prerequisite: trained in stealth

and no, I have no idea exactly what any of these abilities would do... names pulled out of my beard for illustration purposes.
 



Sounds like a rogue.

To the extent that the dwarf class would be kind of a fighter, the elf class kind of a ranger, the eladrin/high elf kind of a wizard, the orc kind of a barbarian etc.

As in: close, but not the same. Human would be more of a generalist than a pure rogue would be.
Could be a good idea to throw some Warlord in there too.
 

The question is, what is a 20th level human?

*blink* *blink* I wonder!

Besides what Kingreaper said, what about some Tolkienian things?, since he's already the source of the D&D elf, dwarf, and halfling tropes:

"The Dominion of Men" (some kind of bonus to rule and expand dominions)
"The Gift of Mortality" (I don't know how this could be turned into a game benefit!)

There are also some indications in the History of Middle-earth of what Men, the Secondborn, would have been like if they hadn't been marred by Morgoth when they awoke. IIRC, they'd have glowing physically immortal bodies. Something like Monk's diamond body?
 

The question is, what is a 20th level human?
I guess the question that must be asked in order to answer that question is "what makes humans unique"? What does "humanness" mean relative to everything else?

To a certain extent, it is pretty much impossible to try to keep humans as a totally generic race in a system with 20 race levels. They need to have some concept or else they would join the 3E Fighter as a 20 level progression of feats, skills, and not much else, and I don't think that is exactly ideal. Humans would need to provide a viable alternative to other options, and mechanisms like "one bonus trained skil" or "a bonus feat" can only go so far.

There are a few major options I can think of:

1) Humans as a genuine jack-of-all-trades. Rather than just providing bonus feats to passively support this concept, it could be pursued more aggressively, with a 20th level human having a wide variety of abilities designed to let the character perform almost any kind of action. Not just bonus skills, but bonuses to every skill. Ability to equip every form of weapon and use any form of equipment or magic item. Experience with all forms of crafting and knowledge. Basic spellcasting, combat ability, and sneakiness. Some non-trivial chance of succeeding at any task, whether that is "convince the king to help us" or "cast Meteor Swarm". I'm not sure of the best mechanical implementation for all of this, but it is certainly one possibility.

2) Level 20 humans are demigods. Basically, raising your human level makes you more like Heracles. It doesn't provide much in the way of skills, techniques, spells, or powers, but it does go a long way towards letting you have a 34 in every ability score.

3) Linking this with the idea that elves and dwarves are subraces of humans that I mentioned above, and going with the idea that racial level goes up in addition to class level rather than instead of class level... Humans would be the masters of, well, the humanoid form. Generally, that means things we tend to take for granted, like having opposable thumbs, having language, being able to read, being able to sing, wearing clothes, having two arms, and so on. The unique advantages of humans as opposed to other races depends a bit on what other races are like, but it would certainly include basic stuff like "can wear armor" or "can carry weapons". Raising the level of human thus improves the character's general skill at these sorts of tasks. Inhuman races would, in turn, improve things like their skill at tearing a foe to pieces with claws and fangs by raising their racial level.

With regards to option #3, the best implementation of "race matters" I've seen is in certain entries in the SaGa series of videogames, where racial choice matters a lot and there really is no class choice. In those games, other racial choices include robots (whose stats are entirely dependant on equipment and can't use magic), monsters (gain strength by eating other monsters and don't use equipment), and mystics (mutant psychics with innate spellcasting ability). In that context, humans are distinct as the characters who carry weapons, cast spells through acquired knowledge, and improve weaponskill through acquired knowledge. More equipment-dependent than monsters or mystics, but make use of skill more than robots. It's a very different kind of racial set-up than most, and shows off the natural strengths and weaknesses of humans rather well.
 


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