20 levels of Race?

[Dice4Hire]

The question is, what is a 20th level human?

Honestly, a warlord.

Humans seem to be the glue that holds varying races together, the ultimate middle-men.

 

[Minigiant]

The question is, what is a 20th level human?

A songless bard with ¼ sneak attack progression.
Nale from OotS basically.

That is how they are in my homebrew game.
20th level dwarf is a like a 4E style sticky immovable fighter.
The elf is a wizard with a mean bow attack. The halfing is a AC rogue. The gnome is a illusionist. The halforc is charge focused barbarian. Halfelf is the closer to a mystic ranger. Dragonborn are firebreathing fighters with 1st level spells. Planetouched are paladins when healthy and barbarians when hurt.

 

[Szatany]

With racial levels, multiclassing = crossbreeds?
So if I want to play an half elf I start as a human1/elf1. Now you can play any kind of hybrid, even a dwahumelf.

 

[Lwaxy]

Now you can play any kind of hybrid, even a dwahumelf.

You can do that anyway.

 

[delericho]

Eh, I'm not grabbed. I guess they're fine as options, but I'd prefer a different approach:

Basically, I would prefer a system where you pick your race (which gives you some small, fixed benefits) and you pick your class (which also gives you some small, fixed benefits), but then the bulk of your customisation, at first level and beyond, comes in the form of power (and feat) choices.

And here, I think your choices of race and class should determine which powers you can choose. So, in addition to Fighter powers and Wizard powers, there should also be Dwarf powers and Dragonborn powers, and so on. (4e already did a little of this, of course.)

That way, depending on the powers you choose, your 12th level Dwarf Fighter could be a Dwarf fighter, a dwarf Fighter, or somewhere between the two extremes.

(Potentially, the system could even be set up so you don't need to take both a race and a class, so your character could just be a Dwarf, or a Fighter, or whatever. I'm not 100% sure how that would work. And, of course, the game could even ultimately go classless, by lifting the limits on who could take what powers.)

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Of course, it is really hard to come up with 20 levels of dwarf, or 20 levels of elf.

A 20 level race is a lot easier to implement with races of a more exaggerated sort. Pixies who gain greater magical powers, nymphs that improve their control over the forces of the natural world, lycanthropes that gain more powerful beast forms, vampires that gain greater powers of darkness, etc.

I think this is the real troublesome aspect of the idea. I don't think the typical PH races have enough racial qualities to spread over 20 levels.

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't see anything inherently wrong with the system, but it isn't something that I would use in the game. I think a hero's race should be a foundation for character development, not a goal in and of itself.

 

[Sunseeker]

I'd rather not see racial levels, at all. I'd rather see some creative racial feats and powers scattered across the levels to allow players to create either the more fightereist fighter ever, or a more flavorful racial-themed warrior, ect...

IMO, racial levels are generally just classes with disgustingly stereotypical themes to them. Elves get a very elfy ranger variant, dwarves get a drunkard/hammer-themed variant fighter, ect... I'd rather see just racial-themed powers and options available within any/certain classes. IE: feats to improve tiefling eldritch blast, dragonborn breath, dwarven hardiness, elven nature-ism, human versatility, ect...

I think it'd be a lot easier to balance a few powers, and much more flavorful, rather than having every race have a singular, stereotypical "class" for their race.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'd rather not see the "take feats to be more dwarfy or more fightery" approach. I think I've argued this in some of the other thread around here, but I guess it bears mentioning here too. Basically, I don't want the game to move in a classless/raceless direction where feat choice becomes a form of point-buy character creation. D&D is a game about picking race and class, and those two decisions should completely overwhelm feat choice. I'd rather not have racial or class-specific feats at all, and leave it so any character can pick any feat.

There is also the point that, historically at least, feats are far too weak to allow for advanced options. You can't stuff "transform into a giant wolf and gain powerful bite and claw attacks" very easily into a feat system, which means a feat-focused approach will be unable to easily create a werewolf race. That means being stuck with watered-down feat-friendly races like the Shifter instead, and I'd much rather have a playable werewolf than Shifters.

 

[Kingreaper]

There is also the point that, historically at least, feats are far too weak to allow for advanced options. You can't stuff "transform into a giant wolf and gain powerful bite and claw attacks" very easily into a feat system, which means a feat-focused approach will be unable to easily create a werewolf race. That means being stuck with watered-down feat-friendly races like the Shifter instead, and I'd much rather have a playable werewolf than Shifters.

With racial levels the two could be one and the same.
A shifter is either a descendant of a werewolf, or someone who's been bitten but not changed fully. As you level in the racial class, you learn to unlock, but also to control, the beast within.
If you take a different class: you stay as a shifter.