D&D 5E (2024) 2024 Gladiator: The Narrative Dissonance

[James Gasik]

It's impossible to provide an adequate simulation of everything that is theoretically possible because that's infinite. If there's specific things a player wants then it can be homebrewed and would need to be fun and balanced against other features. Creating a trap options for PCs just because an NPC has something is the worst of both worlds.

Ideally, if there's something special about character classes as opposed to NPC "classes", I'd think that the PC version of something a random NPC has (that isn't granted by something a player wouldn't have access to, like species) would be superior anyways.

Of course, that's assuming you think that character classes are a big deal in your game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's impossible to provide an adequate simulation of everything that is theoretically possible because that's infinite. If there's specific things a player wants then it can be homebrewed and would need to be fun and balanced against other features. Creating a trap options for PCs just because an NPC has something is the worst of both worlds.

Why would such a thing need to be balanced against other features. Mechanical balance isn't some kind of objective requirement.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ideally, if there's something special about character classes as opposed to NPC "classes", I'd think that the PC version of something a random NPC has (that isn't granted by something a player wouldn't have access to, like species) would be superior anyways.

Of course, that's assuming you think that character classes are a big deal in your game.

Why assume a PC thing thing would be superior to an NPC version of that thing?

 

[Sorinth]

Why would such a thing need to be balanced against other features. Mechanical balance isn't some kind of objective requirement.

Why wouldn't they? If you are making a custom feat what reason do you have for putting it outside the power range of other feats?

 

[James Gasik]

Why assume a PC thing thing would be superior to an NPC version of that thing?

It's a difference in philosophy. You've espoused a philosophy that you want the game to map to the setting. Nothing wrong with that. But the flip side of that philosophy is the idea that the setting should map to the game- that the setting reflects what the game rules model. And so, if one were to look at things that way;

Characters with PC classes are intended (by design) to defeat many NPC's. NPC one finds in the Monster Manual are intended not to defeat many PC's.

PC's are superior, NPC's are inferior.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why wouldn't they? If you are making a custom feat what reason do you have for putting it outside the power range of other feats?

Depends on what the ability does, don't you think? If the ability in-fiction isn't "balanced", why would the mechanic representing it in game be?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's a difference in philosophy. You've espoused a philosophy that you want the game to map to the setting. Nothing wrong with that. But the flip side of that philosophy is the idea that the setting should map to the game- that the setting reflects what the game rules model. And so, if one were to look at things that way;

Characters with PC classes are intended (by design) to defeat many NPC's. NPC one finds in the Monster Manual are intended not to defeat many PC's.

PC's are superior, NPC's are inferior.

Ah, I see. Hard disagree.

 

[NotAYakk]

Depends on what the ability does, don't you think? If the ability in-fiction isn't "balanced", why would the mechanic representing it in game be?

A reason to make custom feats for NPCs suck is that you don't have to worry that much about PCs taking them.

If you aim for balanced, and miss, the PC becomes overly strong.

If you make the feat suck, then PCs won't take it, and problem solved. Less work.

If a PC gets really interested, and you want to provide the feat to the PC, only then do you need to invest in balancing the feat.

(Creating an unbalanced feat PCs aren't allowed to take is another option; but I'm guessing that isn't something people who bother with this tend to want.)

As an example: How good is the "weapons deal an extra set of damage dice" of the Gladiator? I'd make it the best ability the gladiator has from its subclass. Maybe require light armor and have it only work on strength-based attacks and 1 handed weapons with a shield.

So now the fact that the Gladiator is a str/dex build, uses 1 handed weapons and not twf, is no longer a quirk of a suboptional choice, but a build choice.

 

[Sorinth]

Depends on what the ability does, don't you think? If the ability in-fiction isn't "balanced", why would the mechanic representing it in game be?

Given that in-fiction there's no such thing as class abilties, feats, etc... the premise is nonsensical.

 

[Zardnaar]

I just use them as elite "fighter". Thug, Veteran Warrior, Gladiator, Champion.