D&D (2024) 2025 Monster Manual All You Need to Know video link is up.

[UngeheuerLich]

Something like this has been my experience for almost every session I run.




So listen when I tell you: this is too difficult (too time-consuming) for me.

The 2024 designers have ballpack damage / attack / hp / ac numbers for a given CR. Why don't we?

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea that this is a more "advanced" need, and that the goals of the CR calculator were easily misunderstood, and fed the fire of arguments around CR being trash. Those all make sense to me, and are pretty good reasons at the end of the day.

But when I say this is close to a dealbreaker, I mean that it stops me from running my sessions in D&D24, because creating custom monsters is something that I do extensively. Looting from existing monsters liberally, sure, but I am not going to go through 500 different monsters and calculate a Z-score for standard deviations of HP totals at 20-30 different CR points only to arrive at wrong assumptions after doing all the manual work to reverse-engineer something that the designers already have.

I mean, I'm actually going to rely on the community to patch this, practically. Someone somewhere is going to figure out what "bump" monsters in 2024 are getting over their 2014 versions. Lots of folks out there doing good analysis on the monsters, after all, and I'm sure the 2014 process isn't entirely worthless. And then I'll use that.

But this should not be necessary. D&D has had fairly decent monster creation rules since 4e, and if 2024 breaks that trend, I'm going to whine about it a lot on the internet until it does again. And budget a lot more time for monster building than I used to, probably.

Maybe you should invest your time in creating your own monster building rules.

Please don't get me wrong, I like monster creation rules. I found the 4e advice of just redressing monsters awful.

Maybe they should have indeed started woth the 2024 monster manual and then create the other books so they had final design guidelines for monsters to put in the DMG.

As I said, I hope we get some Advanced DM Guide with monster and dungeon creation tools. I'd really love that.

But having a table as in 2014 that just does not generate anything close to the monsters found in the MM was detrimental for my fun. I did not use them after a very short time because anything I could pull out of my hat was more useful to me than monsters built with that table.

So hopefully you publish your self made table or your whining is sucessful so we both soon have a useful tool at hand.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I kept using some resistances, so the HP was pitiful, and the party took them down too easy.

CR 1/4 monsters should have 36 hp... at least. That is about twice as much as most CR 1/2 critters in the 2014 MM

Never had a monster with too many hit points. But whatever the case, they all hit like a pool noodle...

And 4-5 damage per round... Note that this is the damage assuming all attacks hit. The AB should be +3.

This means a CR 1/4 critter has 42 hp with an AC of 13 and has an attack stat of 12 using a d6 weapon.

Put 4 of them against 4 PCs and see how fun this encounter is.

 

[Remathilis]

CR 1/4 monsters should have 36 hp... at least. That is about twice as much as most CR 1/2 critters in the 2014 MM

And 4-5 damage per round... Note that this is the damage assuming all attacks hit. The AB should be +3.

This means a CR 1/4 critter has 42 hp with an AC of 13 and has an attack stat of 12 using a d6 weapon.

Put 4 of them against 4 PCs and see how fun this encounter is.

So here was the trick to the table: the numbers lie.

A CR 1/4 is the average of a defensive CR (AC and HP) and offensive (attacks and damage). Most 1/4 CR creatures aren't using the 1/4 line on the table, they are using the 1/8th defense numbers and the 1/2 offensive numbers. It creates a creature that doesn't hang around too long and hits like a truck.

 

[dave2008]

I hope you make it public once done.

I plan too. I will post the draft as I am working on it here and then cleaning it up and "publish" the final here and UAReddit probably

Maybe we get some DM's expanded toolbox book soon. Would make a great extra book. Dungeon building, monster bulding, a lot of optional rules. All those of xanathar and tasha and the old DMG that were left out in the core books. I had prefered them to be in the new 2024 DMG instead of greyhawk.

That is what a lot of us are hoping for!

 

[dave2008]

So here was the trick to the table: the numbers lie.

A CR 1/4 is the average of a defensive CR (AC and HP) and offensive (attacks and damage). Most 1/4 CR creatures aren't using the 1/4 line on the table, they are using the 1/8th defense numbers and the 1/2 offensive numbers. It creates a creature that doesn't hang around too long and hits like a truck.

I am hoping to even that out with my table. The intent of may table will be to allow you to pick a CR and then everything is basically spelled out for you. You can use that monster straight up and it will work.

Then I will provide guidelines for modify stats (less HP but higher damage, etc.) and adding features (like legendary resistance).

I've got a good plan currently, just need to find the time to make it!

 

[Remathilis]

I am hoping to even that out with my table. The intent of may table will be to allow you to pick a CR and then everything is basically spelled out for you. You can use that monster straight up and it will work.

Then I will provide guidelines for modify stats (less HP but higher damage, etc.) and adding features (like legendary resistance).

I've got a good plan currently, just need to find the time to make it!

That would make a lot more sense than what WotC did!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So here was the trick to the table: the numbers lie.

A CR 1/4 is the average of a defensive CR (AC and HP) and offensive (attacks and damage). Most 1/4 CR creatures aren't using the 1/4 line on the table, they are using the 1/8th defense numbers and the 1/2 offensive numbers. It creates a creature that doesn't hang around too long and hits like a truck.

I know that trick. But why have a table setup that way? This is a convoluted way of doing it.

Why not start with a table that has those values as standard values?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That would make a lot more sense than what WotC did!

The only way to make sense of that is when building that table, they actually planned to have more hp on every monster. But then after printing those guidelines they noticed that even though the table produced reliable encounters, that those were not fun at all because they were a slog. And then they reduced HP of MM creatures and upped their damage a bit (not enough), but it was too late to change the table.

 

[Remathilis]

I know that trick. But why have a table setup that way? This is a convoluted way of doing it.

Why not start with a table that has those values as standard values?

Ask WotC. I told you all the monster creation rules were useless to all but the most dedicated DMs.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ask WotC. I told you all the monster creation rules were useless to all but the most dedicated DMs.

Yeah. I know. My point is just: the 2024 DMG guidelines are more useful than the 2014 guidelines for nearly all DMs. And those that can make use of that table can just make their own.

So lets just say, we agree!