$20K (or a possible 120K) for your soul?

[BButler]

What did you serve it with?

Fava beans and a nice chianti??

 

[mmadsen]

If you're one of those who cooked up a quick idea within one week for WoTC's campaign setting contest, you'll vehemently disagree with me.

I don't think that's the only reason I disagree with you...

I created my submitted idea in December of 1996 (it was actually for a video game, then a possible novel), and have constantly revised it for my game idea/novel, then as part of a campaign setting for D&D.

That certainly sounds like what they're looking for, an idea that works for gaming, novels, etc.

I was writing three novels based on that world (two are about 50% finished, while the third is just an outline) when I heard about this.

Might I recommend getting one novel 100% finished?

At first, I thought that it was great. 120k and a guaranteed job? Hell, as a broke college student, I'm in! But after I sent it last Tuesday, I felt something I have never felt in my life: I might have sold my creative soul. Much of it, anyway, but something I put my heart in during my teen years.

Your creative soul? Once you've won the contest, you've sold the rights to sell products and make money off of a particular setting. You haven't sold any part of your soul, creative or otherwise.

If you honestly believe you're going to make more than $120k off your idea -- especially once you take into account the value of your time and how this $120k only takes 111 pages of writing, not 24 novels of 300 pages each -- then I say you're probably delusional, but maybe you're onto something. If you don't think you're going to make $120k off your idea, there's no reason not to sell it away for $120k (plus industry fame).

120,000 is a LOT of money: almost three years' worth of good income, in spite of taxes. Unfortunately it is not worth five and a half years of my vision.

I'm sorry, what's your superior alternative? Right now you're getting nothing for your five and a half years of "vision". No one's reading your work, no one's discussing it online, and no one's paying you a dime.

I'll admit it: I have not written a single published work of any sort. (I submitted a couple of short stories to a couple of fantasy magazines, but they were all rejected.) So, odds are that my first novel under WoTC, which would 99% of the time be accepted, will bomb terribly.

So you haven't published a single work, but your first novel is practically guaranteed to get published by WotC? Huh?

Anyway, I don't think you're getting "gypped" or "screwed" if you sell a 100-page setting bible and associated rights for $120k. I'm not sure you're even screwed if you sell your setting for $20k -- especially since they'll do graphic design on your world and put out a nice hardback of your ideas for you. Wouldn't that be cool?

If WotC had us all sign over all rights just to enter the contest, then I'd completely understand your worries, but they specifically avoided that Evil Corporate Legal Tactic. It looks like they're playing more than fair and squair.

 

[Erik Mona]

If you can come up with one cool setting idea, you can come up with another. I was really, really proud of the campaign setting I put together in high school. Now, several years later, I can't even bring myself to look at it. What you think is cool now will be quite a bit different in 5 years. That means you'll either mold your beloved setting to fit your tastes so much that it no longer _really_ resembles its current form, or you'll start over anyway.

And since you entered the setting search, you might as well spend those years figuring out how many comics and DVDs $120,000 can net you.

--Erik

 

[Lady Dragon]

Haven't you ever heard of changing the names to protect the innocent (or guilty) I changed the names of all the people and places I mentioned in my proposel And if I actually get to one of the later stages I will make further changes to things like the map and I'll add and subtract things as I see fit so nobody will ever recognize it was the same as my own world.And once I sold it I would be proud they were using something I created and I wouldn't really care what they did to it.Besides I beleive The winner will continue to be consulted from time to time.

Also I cannot begin to tell you how much $120,000 would do for my life. Far more than a campaign setting that is a hobby of mine does for my life.Which by the way in my own private life I could continue to do with as I pleased.Besides I'm a creative person I can just think of another world I was starting to get bored with the old one anyhow.

Finally my name would get out there as a professional writer and many more dooors would open both in the D20 world and in fantasy publishing in general.

Yes I know that D20 writer make minimal money but It would be a better option that working at a minimum wage job that I hate and combined with my spouses income I'd be doing fairly well.

So yeah I submitted I would have submitted for much less If I even get $20,000 I would be very happy.

 

[Erik Mona]

>>>
Kamikaze Midget (love that name): I already know why my stuff's been rejected. I don't mean to brag, but I know 95% of what there is to the writing market. (The remaining 5% is how to always get stories sold, and I haven't got that through quite yet).
>>>

Well, you've figured out the hubris part, anyway.

--Erik

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

Erik has the right idea here...

I really fail to see how someone who:

1. has never published a single written work

and

2. hasn't even finished the first draft of a single novel

could realistically know 95% of diddly squat, let alone the writing market.

This entire thread has been about nothing but absurd egotism and I, for one, am finally sick of it.

Take your delusions of grandeur elsewhere, please.

-F

 

[mearls]

Not a writer, but an educated guess (read several threads with Mr Mearls explaining how much work he needs to do, along with serveral others). Those who do write professionally feel free to correct me -----

I would estimate the the average full time game writer makes between 40-60K a year. They probably put out about 800-1,000 pages.

Your numbers are a little off.

I'm going to write a million words this year. It's gone from "I looks like I'll write a million" to "I have a million agreed on, contracted, and penned into my black book."

I estimate that I'll make a sight less than $40k.

Now, I know very little about other freelancers, but I suspect most people don't write a million words a year.

The only way I've been able to make a full-time freelance career happen was by working 60 hour weeks coding at a startup company for 12 months (all while writing at night) before the investment bankers figured out that the Internet is never going to make the money they thought it would. I used that nest egg to finance my first 8 months or so on the job. I'm finally at the point now where I have enough money coming it to live off it.

Of course, if tomorrow I fall down the stairs, break my leg, and can't work for a week or two, my freelance career is essentially over. I have no health insurance and between the doctor's bills and missed work I'd have to go back to coding.

(As an aside, the big barrier isn't necessarily the pay rate. You can probably freelance on the side for a year or two, do good work, up your rate to 4 cents, then work your ass off lining up work. You'd be shocked at how rare it is for a writer to turn in readable, coherent manuscripts on time. I never knew this was a big deal until I'd been doing it for over a year. The problem is that companies have this thing about waiting for freakin' ever to pay their freelancers. I still haven't been paid for books that were published 4 months ago. The key is finding good companies that treat you like a contractor, not like some idiot who's just happy to see his name on a book.)

 

[Ace]

Rubbish! Let us say that I won the $120,000 for the world. Not only would get a dozen fold increase over any advance a novel would give me I gain alot more than just money.

Odds are if I do my job well I will have opportunity to be a published writer,maybe get freelance gaming jobs (heck just getting to phase2 will likely give you that) my 15 minutes of fame, and the possiblity of more work for WOTC on Games and Novels.

OK WOTC gets my hard made game world but so what? How many more people will be enjoying it if it was published.

Personally I think its great and a very cool thing to do.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

Your numbers are a little off.

I'm going to write a million words this year. It's gone from "I looks like I'll write a million" to "I have a million agreed on, contracted, and penned into my black book."

I estimate that I'll make a sight less than $40k.

Now, I know very little about other freelancers, but I suspect most people don't write a million words a year.

I suspect that, all told, I'll end up with about 500,00 - 750,000 words and, honestly, that's pushing it for me.

I write s-l-o-w and methodical, interspersed with days of maniacal speed.

In other words, even $40k looks darn good to me.

Patrick Y.

 

[Fiery James]

The only way I've been able to make a full-time freelance career happen was by working 60 hour weeks coding at a startup company for 12 months (all while writing at night) before the investment bankers figured out that the Internet is never going to make the money they thought it would. I used that nest egg to finance my first 8 months or so on the job. I'm finally at the point now where I have enough money coming it to live off it.

I'd just add:

Also, it really helps if you're very talented and have an unbelievable drive. Mearls has both.

For many people, even if they could save up for 12 months, they wouldn't be as successful because they're just not as good as you.

Don't want to hijack your point -- I just think you're a Master of the D20 System and deserve an ego stroke from time to time.

- James