20th level arena challenge. comments?

[Clovekiller]

Alright, so myself and 3 friends will be running an arena style level 20 tournament next month. We are planning on about 32 players, so to try and avoid headaches, I thought I'd see if any one up in here had any advice.

Anything in particular we should look out for? We've tried to be pretty even handed with the rules and are trying to stick to the RAW as much as possible (To save space the rules are here, http://www.level20nola.com ). Any rules that you guys have seen exploited that we should be ready for? Heard any horror stories or success stories about a similar game?

Any feedback is appreciated, and if any of you are in the new orleans area you are welcome to swing by and play or watch.

 

[Fieari]

You might want to browse the WotC Character Optimization Board for things that might be broken that someone might try, especially if it's for money.

The classic mega-broken characters are:

"The Wish"
"The Word"
The Hulking Hurler

Of those, I'd say the Hulking Hurler is actually a weak choice for your contest, because while it can dish out more than 2 trillion damage on average per iterative attack, it's incredibly vulnerable to attack from anyone, and it doesn't always hit anyways. So anything that gets the initiative on it will kill it, and anything that fails initiative that manages to survive the attack (by dodging or whatever) will also kill it. I'd imagine it'd actualy go out in the first or second round.

Don't allow the "Thought Bottle", as that is the key premise behind "The Word", which uses the Thought Bottle to effectively become ECL 60+. Furthermore, it would make crafting future things practically XP free.

Don't allow gateing in creatures to do your bidding before combat begins, as this is the key premise behind "The Wish"... who gates in a creature and commands it to create it a custom magical item that gives him infinite XP free wishes. (Search at WotC is down at the moment or I'd link them for you)

In fact, you might want an open clause that you reserve the right to exclude any character for reasons of "Obvious Rule Loophole Exploitation" or some such. Esspecially if this is for money. Money can make people get very upset.

 

[yennico]

I remember a thread called Sultans of Smack. It was for D&D 3.0, but perhaps some things haven´t changed.

 

[Fieari]

At a casual glance, some of those sultans of smack are relying on 3.0 haste, so don't worry about those.

An additional thing to consider: You absolutely MUST have a PUBLISHED METHOD for handling rule disputes. There are some rules that different people handle differently. Heck, just look down this forum, you'll see several disputes in progress, some of them heated with both sides CONVINCED they're right by the RAW. You -will- have people arguing the rules like this. You need a published method for handling this.

For example: I make a rogue sneak attack for your competition, and rely not on invisibility (see invisible is too easy to come by) but a summoned monster (scroll) for flanking. Now, I interpret the flanking rules such that I can get a ranged sneak attack if my summoned monster is threatening on the other side of my foe. My (real human) opponent did not read the relevant rule this way. Money is on the line. Shouting and anger come up.

How do you settle the dispute? Hypersmurf isn't standing there next to you, ready to give rapid arbitration. The age old tactic of asking CustServ and then doing the opposite won't work... takes to long to get a responce. Your hired Rules Lawyers might not be as skilled as they told you during their interview for the job. But you need arbitration, you need it fast, and you need to make sure that it's understood that while the Rules Lawyer might rule wrong, the decision is STILL FINAL.

 

[pbd]

Using the tournament rules as written you can make a fighter 10/dervish 10 that can have 15 attacks per round (TWF) main hand +41/+41/+41/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+26, 1d6+22, 15-20/x2 (primary) and +41/+41/+36/+36/+31/+31, 1d6+16, 15-20/x2 (secondary). This is using dual +5 scimitars, haste, and lightning blades ability form dervish, STR 28 (18 normal, +4 manual, +6 belt), as well as the dervish dance (+5 to hit and damage) and a luckstone.

This lasts for 1 round only then they revert to the "normal" 8 attacks per round (TWF) main hand +41/+41/+36/+31/+26, 1d6+22, 15-20/x2 (primary) and +41/+36/+31, 1d6+16, 15-20/x2 (secondary). This is using dual +5 scimitars, haste, STR 28 (18 normal, +4 manual, +6 belt), as well as the dervish dance (+5 to hit and damage) and a luckstone.

The build also has a 50 AC (dex +5, mithirl heavy fortification-soulfire breastplate +1, animated tower shield +5, bracers of armor +8, amulet of NA +5, ring of prot +5, dervish +3, and haste +1)

Also, the charatcre has a cloak of resistance +5 for save of: fort +19, ref +21, will +15.

and 165 hp.

Plus and additional 39,500 gp for more items...

And I bet there are many better builds out there.

 

[Clovekiller]

Thanks, I'll have to look more at 'The word' and 'the wish' over on the WoTC forums.

As far as rules disputes go, I hadn't even realized we hadn't addressed this on the webpage yet. We discussed it earlier and are current policy is. Each match will have its own DM,(4 of a time as there are 4 of us). We will give the players up to 5 minuites (timed)to argue a rule they feel is being interpreted incorrectly, but in the end the DM's decision is final. We really don't want someone to walk away from this thinking they got cheated, yet at the same time we cant spend hours on rules lawyering.

 

[yennico]

Perhaps you can playtest your rules in the Fight Club on this board or on the wizards.com board before using them in the tournament which is played for money.

P.S. Take in your rules the sentance: The GM of the tournament has always the final word and can exclude a player from the tournament without saying the cause.

 

[Thanee]

Don't allow gateing in creatures to do your bidding before combat begins, as this is the key premise behind "The Wish"... who gates in a creature and commands it to create it a custom magical item that gives him infinite XP free wishes. (Search at WotC is down at the moment or I'd link them for you)

That wouldn't work, anyways. The DM has to approve every magic item beyond those printed in the book.

Also...

A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service.

So item creation without paying for it yourself is definitely out of question.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Something to consider:

- Psionics (at this level, I'd simply disallow them completely, they are far too advantageous compared to magic for this style of play)
- Magic (there are plenty things to consider... metamagic rods should be banned, Gate, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, etc)

Also, definitely include a clause, that the tourney organization has to approve every character, and that clearly broken characters, which are based on exploiting loopholes in the rules will not be allowed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[green slime]

Hi,

My opinions regarding this exercise is as follows:

You really, really, really have to go over every character with a fine toothcomb. No. I mean REALLY. No. Like Anally Retentive.

People have a problem getting characters ready on time, and ALWAYS, ALWAYS err on the side of their characters. Whether it is the number of points for point buy stats, fudging hit points, incorrectly calculating their Attack Bonus, or exceeding the wealth limit, or exceeding character construction limits: Most players assume "Oh 20th level, then I have 7 feats (8 if human) to assign." And then they just give themselves 7 feats with no consideration of the level requirements of said feats. Of course, they also do not present this information in a readily discernable format, so you really have to sit there with your books next to you. This requires you spend a large amount of time, just examining the character entries prior to the tournament.

You need to examine each and every magical item they equip themselves with, and try to forsee any difficulties associated with these regarding rules interpretations, and give them your view on how those items works, before the tournament starts, or people will be very upset about having "wasted" money on that resource.

Ideally, really ideally, you should create the PC, because you are hardly going to have enough time to wade through 32 entries fairly and accurately.

I hope you are very familiar with play at that level, and all the odd, wierd and wonderful spells and items in all those books.

What do you have against Camels?!?!?!