25 or 32...what's the REAL "standard" point buy?

[Ogre Mage]

Some DM's claim their players need the higher stats, because of the encounters they throw at them. Well, if you throw higher CR encounters at them, they'll just gain XP faster than expected. Why not just give them an extra level instead?

Higher CR encounters may also mean the PCs "get dead" faster.

Also, my DMs have thrown encounters at us that were "tougher" but did not increase the CR/XP because the extra challenge came from situational modifiers which in their view did not merit an increase in CR. For instance, we have had to fight powerful melee creatures in enclosed spaces where we were forced to melee with them. In the open, with plenty of room to move around, the threat would be far less. My DMs have never increased the CR for "situational" modifiers such as this.

 

[Elric]

25 point buy makes for so many characters with 8 Cha. Even 28 does the same. For example, 25 pt buy monk is 14 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Wis, 9 Int, 8 Cha. 25 pt buy paladin can't dump-stat Cha, so like 14 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Wis, 9 Int, 14 Cha. Multi-class characters will have it even worse.

I would like to point out that 32 point buy will often mean that NPCs are also made on 32 point buy. Plus, it helps avoid the "I'm 10th level now. Why do my ability scores still suck?" problem. Since higher ability scores--> surviving more, and PCs expect to survive, if their abiltiy scores suck they will be the only high level characters in existence with bad ability scores (since NPCs are created at their levels).

 

[Fenes]

We used 30 points in the last game we started. In the game before we use "Pick your stats, total sum of modifiers can't be higher than +12, DM may adjust them as he sees fit based on class and gear". In the game before that we used "Distribute 75 points between all stats (starting at 0) at a 1 per 1 rate".

 

[Li Shenron]

We have used 28, 30 and 32 point-buy methods. It seems to me that the more we play, the more points we want to have at character creation... a trend that I would expected to be the other way around :\ I was expecting more experienced players to be attracted by more difficult challenges...

 

[Chacal]

We used 36 because of two factors
- the average stats of the aD&D Pcs we had was around 14. (I knew this argument wasn't relevant : a 14 would give no bonus in previous versions)
- I generally don't give stat-boosting items (My players would probably remove "stat-boosting" in this sentence )

I still feel it's a bit much (I used between 25 and 36 for NPCs and monsters )
I'd prefer using 32 in my next campaign.


Chacal

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I myself begin to prefer the 28-point buy, but I feel perfectly happy with 25 or standard array (actually, most 25-point buy characters end up with the standard array - it just makes sense)

We had the following:
1 30 point buy campaign
1 28 point buy campaign (Our D20 Modern Shadowrun campaign)
several 25 point buy campaign.

My AU campaign had a base of 25 points. Than, every character determined an ability score by a random roll and could add 3 points to that score, as "Niashara`s Gift", as I call it myself. As I hoped, 2 characters good a better charisma through it (no longer an 8 ). The Giant in the group got stronger (while he wasn`t actually aiming for a melee combat character with it).

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[S'mon]

I'd recommend 32 PB. The other GMs in my group use it, it works fine and creates decent but not hugely powerful PCs. 25 PB PCs are weak, and 25 PB makes several classes like Monk & Paladin so weak as to be unplayable IMO. Personally I use best of (1d10+8)x6 or 35 PB; even 35 PB PCs aren't as good as many high-rolled 3/4d6-ers.
I would only ever recommend 25 PB as "best of 25 PB or (3/4d6)x6", and even then only for a fairly low-powered game where most NPCs were built with less points.

 

[S'mon]

32 points is really for "heroic" fantasy, where the PCs are so far above the norm that they are truly heroes.

Doesn't that pretty much define the typical D&D game?

When many settings and scenarios are using 25-PB/Default Array for the hordes of faceless mooks (Conan's Picts, Midnight's Orcs, etc), it would really suck for PCs to be stuck with it too. The PCs really ought to stand out from the mooks, IMO. Even the elite mooks.

 

[Bagpuss]

I use 28 myself. Although actually a 25 point character isn't really as bad as people think. In earlier editions an attribute hardly wasn't worth having unless it was 16 or more, hence old players still feel a need for high scores, where nowdays a 12 or 14 gives as much benifit as the old 16 and 17's. A character build with 32 points really screws the balance in some cases especially if they have maxed their combat abilities, an 18 can be like a 2 or 3 level advantage and make what might be a challenge for a 25 point buy group a walk in the park.

Problem is 25 point buy makes the old timers feel less than hero's, like average folks.

 

[S'mon]

Yup. Me old timer.