25 or 32...what's the REAL "standard" point buy?

[Klaus]

When I started my 3.0 campaign a couple of years back (and we're _still_ 1oth level), I went for standard array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). But during Forge of Fury I realized that a 3-PC party of standard characters was vastly underpowered (almost had a TPK facing a single ogre, or three trogs). So I bumped up their stats into 32-point realm, to make up for a 4th PC.

My next campaign, I'm leaning towards 25-point buy, but with base 10 scroe, instead of 8. That ammounts to a 37-point buy, but ensures that the party doesn't suffer from being _bad_ at something, which they can't afford with just 3 characters.

 

[Peskara]

I used to be a big proponent of rolling stats, but then we had a campaign where people kept switching characters to ones which had rolled better stats, so we switched to point-buy.

35 is what we would normally use, I think, but we talked our DM into giving us 40 points. The reason it's so high is because magic items are pretty rare and stat-boosting items are almost non-existent in our campaign, plus we like to keep the group small but still have fairly heroic fights.

In a more standard D&D setting, I guess it would depend on what sort of feel you're going for. With 25 points I think the PCs would be just scraping by for the first few levels until the can get some magic items or stat upgrades. With 32 points, I think it would feel more like they were destined to be heroes from the start.

 

[Glyfair]

I've played in 25, 28 & 32. I think with my group I prefer 28 points.

With 25 points, characters tend to look the same. They have limited choices and usually increase their key stat to 16 and then boost the tertiary stats to 10 (unless they have a "dump stat" they choose to take) and then use the rest to boost secondary stats.

32 points, on the other hand, also tends to look the same. There is more variation here, though. Since my campaign tends to be a bit diverse, players prefer to be versatile. That leads to characters that prefer not to have any dump stats. They boost their stats in their primary stats and key secondary stats and use the rest to balance the rest of their stats.

There are exceptions in 32, though. Sometimes I fighter decides he wants an 18 str & con. So, it does occasionally have more variety than 25.

28, on the other hand, tends to be high enough to allow customization, but low enough that sacrifices need to be made. The combination means those sacrifices tend to be in different areas leading to more variety in characters.

Of course, these apply to my campaigns. If you have a more focused campaign (high combat, low combat), you might see a lot more variety in 32 point buy. Players in those games might choose to boost their primary stats and choose a secondary direction to go. They will be more willing to have a dump stat in the area the campaign doesn't focus on.

Also, this will vary based on your players, too. Some players always like to be different. Those players will usually avoid the "default" stat choices. Also, their are the rare players who just like to be weird (they create fighters with an 8 Strength and an 18 intelligence & 16 charisma).

 

[Nightchill]

I'm slightly surprised so many campaigns use 32 point buy. I used it for an old one of mine and found it a little too powerful with the "everyone can be good at nearly everything". 28 point buy seems a nice middle ground. 18s are possible, but you're not going to be good at much else

 

[Henry]

When we do use point buy, we use anywhere from 30 to 36 point buy. I wouldn't mind a 28 point buy, even, but 25 seems a little low for heroic action, because a PC who starts with a 14 or 15 score is not likely going to reach an 18 or 20 by 20th level, which is what many players shoot for.

We usually use dice-rolling methods that would equate to anywhere from a 36 to 40-point buy; while a little excessive, the players enjoy it, and it hasn't made a real difference in challenging them.

 

[stephenh]

Some possibly interesting figures:

using 3d6: average points = 18
using 4d6 drop one: average points = 29

using 3d6 but excluding "non viable" combos: average points = 30
using 4d6 drop one but excluding "non viable" combos: average points = 34

The "non viable" definition I used here was at least 1 stat above 14 and total ability modifiers better than +3.

(averages are rounded to nearest whole number)

 

[diaglo]

but 25 seems a little low for heroic action, because a PC who starts with a 14 or 15 score is not likely going to reach an 18 or 20 by 20th level, which is what many players shoot for.

bah, you slacker


read the story hour in my sig. and then look at the character stats in the rogue's gallery.

people can roleplay any stat if they are so inclined.

 

[Plane Sailing]

32 points

 

[The_Gneech]

I like to go with higher stat levels, but then I don't give out very many buff items. At 1st level, characters with high stats are more durable, wheras at later levels they aren't as insane. (And when the rare buff item does show up, it's a really big deal. The party wizard's player was ecstatic when he found an Ioun Stone that gave the wizard a total of 20 Int -- "Best Christmas ever!")

-The Gneech

 

[Old One]

Point-Buy, with 28 as a base. Then, I award up to 6 bonus points for things like:

(1) Character background with at least 3 (non-cheesy) plot hooks

(2) Artwork or picture that reflects the PC

(3) Painted mini for the PC

Most of the players shoot for all 6 bonus points, so the PCs end up with 34 points. While this may sound a bit overpowered, they have far less in the way of wealth and magic items than a "typical" campaign. The average PC level is now 7th, and I would estimate that the average assets of each PC (in magic items, MW gear and mundane gear) is less than 5,000 gp.

~ Old One