2E Preview Booklet

[M.L. Martin]

I don't mean to threadjack, but can you explain this awesome graphic? Is this just a pic made by Gygax or a friend, or were these put out on the webs somewhere?

I know that Old Geezer put some of his player's maps of the complex up for sale a few months ago; grodog, did you wind up being the buyer?

Its a little disheartening to see how they hyped up the previous (1st) edition, while also advertising for 2e. I don't remember that same level of respect during the rollouts of 3.X or 4e.

Some of this may have to do with differing business strategies. TSR adopted a gradual transition model for the 1E->2E changeover, encouraging people to use 1E material and keeping it available well into the 1990s. WotC's approach tends to be more of a complete and immediate changeover.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Some of this may have to do with differing business strategies. TSR adopted a gradual transition model for the 1E->2E changeover, encouraging people to use 1E material and keeping it available well into the 1990s. WotC's approach tends to be more of a complete and immediate changeover.

It's not so much differing business strategies as it was a very different marketplace. In those days, TSR made its money off of modules, not rules. When you stop and look at the HUGE sales numbers a lot of the first edition module series had, it's easy to see why keeping an "installed base" of 1st ed players happy and still buying adventure and setting material was important to TSR. They sold HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of copies of some of those modules in the 80s! Small wonder they saw their profit as being mostly in the adventure publishing business. That WAS their business.... at the time, that is.

And if WotC could get TSR's sales numbers out of their module series - they'd be stumbling all over themeselves to get in that business too. But that's just not the marketplace anymore.

We now live in a very different marketplace. There are so many adventures out there, it's as if there were entire sedimentary layers of 36 years of adventure material that has never really gone away. TSR did not have to deal with that in a major way until the early 90s. While modules can still make money, they aren't as profitible as rules. Hence, the rush to revise, reset and resell in the current marketplace.

 

[Cyronax]

I know that Old Geezer put some of his player's maps of the complex up for sale a few months ago; grodog, did you wind up being the buyer?

Some of this may have to do with differing business strategies. TSR adopted a gradual transition model for the 1E->2E changeover, encouraging people to use 1E material and keeping it available well into the 1990s. WotC's approach tends to be more of a complete and immediate changeover.

Nay. I wish I had the disposable income for old maps like that. Who is Old Geezer? Is that a handle on ENWorld that I don't recognize? Was there an auction thread?

TSR's transition from 1e to 2e was definitely more tranquil than 3.x to 4e,
but its the nature of the rules systems I suppose.

I've been flipping through my 2e books and the D&D Cyclopedia, and I was struck by how much of the rules were optional. I sort of miss that. The 2e preview really struck home how much DM and group choice was factored into the total game design. Very cool .... brings back a lot of memories of crunching my own rules for new priest classes of nonstandard mythoi and working on my own 2e version of martial arts.

Oh well, I generally like all the editions and the evolution of the system. I am just really getting sick of the negativity of recent edition war threads.

C.I.D.

 

[Squizzle]

Old Geezer is a highly active rpg.net poster and, to my knowledge, the most visible and online-active surviving member of Gygax's original group. Geezer is responsible for, among other things, half-elves and gelatinous cubes.

 

[Nikosandros]

TSR's transition from 1e to 2e was definitely more tranquil than 3.x to 4e, but its the nature of the rules systems I suppose.

That's certainly a strong factor, since 1e and 2e are extremely similar, while 3e is a radical redesign of the "engine" of the game. I think that there was also a different "mentality". WotC was (and I think still is) very much averse to "dilute" the brand with support of different versions of D&D and so made an abrupt and total transition to the new edition.

 

[jdrakeh]

My most prized RPG-related gem was a printer's proof for the first printing of High Fantasy (I can't rightly recall where I picked it up). At another point in time I had an envelope of my personal correspondence with author Dennis L. McKiernan, including many of his personal Rolemaster 1e rules for role playing in Mithgar. I think that the neatest thing I have in that vein now are some copper-plated 30-sided dice (once used for some kind of promotion) that appear to have some collectible value.

 

[grodog]

I don't mean to threadjack, but can you explain this awesome graphic? Is this just a pic made by Gygax or a friend, or were these put out on the webs somewhere?

I know that Old Geezer put some of his player's maps of the complex up for sale a few months ago; grodog, did you wind up being the buyer?

No, unfortunately I was outbid on that map (which was just 1 map). The maps in the graphic above are six of Rob Kuntz's Castle Greyhawk maps, which he sold at auction in 2006 or so. Rob sold many of his original manuscripts to help finance his Pied Piper Publishing company, and I was more than happy to help support his efforts by bidding on the maps---I didn't truthfully expect to win them, since Rob's Bottle City map and key sold for ~$3600 in 2005:

Rob is planning to publish the old Greyhawk Castle levels and many other gems over the next few years, so if you're interested, check out his blog, forums, web site, etc.

Nay. I wish I had the disposable income for old maps like that. Who is Old Geezer? Is that a handle on ENWorld that I don't recognize? Was there an auction thread?

Old Geezer is a highly active rpg.net poster and, to my knowledge, the most visible and online-active surviving member of Gygax's original group. Geezer is responsible for, among other things, half-elves and gelatinous cubes.

Old Geezer = Michael Mornard, who has the perhaps-singular distinction of having been a regular player in the original campaigns for Gygax and Kuntz (in Greyhawk), Anderson (in Blackmoor), and Barker (in Tekumel). There are other folks from that original D&D generation online and active (Rob Kuntz being another very noteworthy one).

 

[Cyronax]

Rob is planning to publish the old Greyhawk Castle levels and many other gems over the next few years, so if you're interested, check out his blog, forums, web site, etc.


Old Geezer = Michael Mornard, who has the perhaps-singular distinction of having been a regular player in the original campaigns for Gygax and Kuntz (in Greyhawk), Anderson (in Blackmoor), and Barker (in Tekumel). There are other folks from that original D&D generation online and active (Rob Kuntz being another very noteworthy one).

Thanks for all the info. I'll check out the blogs.

C.I.D.

 

[grodog]

You're quite welcome