D&D 3E/3.5 2nd ed. Skills & Powers Stats for 3.5

[Raflar]

I agree, trying to make them all balanced and equally useful was hard. My gaming group only consists of 2 players and a DM (who usually plays a character), this changes a lot in the way the game is played. For one, the game gets more detailed and character driven. Characters have a chance to explore those oft overlooked abilities. The downside is that most premade adventures have to really be reworked to avoid TPK.

That being said, I think it is the responsibility of the DM (usually me) to make all the abilities and skills useful. If I never bring encumbrance, or running into play, Stamina becomes a useless ability. Both of my two players usually pick at least one obscure skill or ability and I try to bring that into play. You could say I 'pander' to the players, but this IS a game and it should be fun for everyone (DM included).

Basically what I'm saying is, something is as important as you make it. There are no 'dump stats' if you create situations to use them.

Of course trying to make things balanced is still good. Which is why I'm posting this here.

 

[TerraDave]

Sub Attributes Optional Rules (Taken from the 2nd ed. Skills & Powers Optional Rules)

STRENGTH
(Muscle)
• Damage Bonus
• Max Press
• Strength Checks (ie: open doors)
• Jump Skill

(Stamina)
• Swim Skill
• Endurance Checks (ie: running)

DEXTERITY
(Aim)
• To Hit Bonus (both melee & range)
• Sleight of Hand Skill
• Use Rope Skill
• Precision Craft/Profession (ie: gemcutting, tailor)

(Agility)
• Initiative Modifier
• Reflex Save
• Balance
• Escape Artist
• Ride
• Sneak (we encompass Hide & Move Silently in one skill)

CONSTITUTION
(Health)
• Hit Points (Wounds)
• Fortitude Save

(Fitness)
• Hit Points (Vitality Mod)
• Climb Skill
• Tumble Skill
• Holding your breath

INTELLIGENCE
(Reason)
• Arcane Spells (DC, Bonus Spells)
• Appraise Skill
• Forgery Skill
• Search Skill
• Decipher Script Skill
• Disable Device Skill
• Craft Skill (ie: carpentry, smithing, alchemy)

(Knowledge)
• All Knowledge Skills (separately)
• Profession Skill*
• Spellcraft Skill

WISDOM
(Intuition)
• Divine Spells (DC, Bonus Spells)
• Heal Skill
• Observe Skill (combined Listen & Spot)
• Sense Motive Skill
• Survival Skill
• Use Magic/Psionic Device Skill

(Willpower)
• Will Save
• Concentration Skill

CHARISMA
(Leadership)
• Bluff Skill
• Diplomacy Skill
• Handle Animal Skill
• Intimidate Skill (is now apposed by Will save: DC=check)
• Perform Skill (Oratory)

(Appearance)
• Disguise Skill
• Gather Information Skill
• Perform Skill (Dance, Music)

Some notes: We changed the base check on several skills after some debate, some made sense (like Concentration being more Willpower to complete the task than a health issue) and some we broke down into several categories. (Perform and Craft)

We are going to playtest this for a bit and see if it’s balanced. There are probably some people who will argue our choices (like using Aim for ALL to Hit Bonuses) but our argument was ‘hitting is not damaging’

I should also mention that we play “Wounds & Vitality” and are thinking of using “Armour as DR”, but we’ll try this first for a few sessions.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome as this is still a rough draft.

This seems pretty carefully done-though you've lost "finese weapons" (but it is a small loss), and are encouraging "reasonable" bards and sorcerers...

But again it requires really emphasing everything in play--i.e. making spell craft important for arcane spell casters, making charecters who pick a low apearance feel ugly, etc

 

[Terath Ninir]

Muscle is still clearly superior to Stamina, but I don't know exactly what can be done about that. Damage bonus wins out over endurance checks in just about any scenario I can think of...

 

[der_kluge]

Gnome, that's funny. I found them from an online character sheet as well. Heck, maybe even the same one. My S&P books are in storage.

And I agree, this does look pretty balanced, though stamina would be quite the dump stat for most people.

Might I suggest just not splitting strength in half?

I mean, do you really need two sub-abilities for strength? Just keep it as one.

And this was the major problem with skills and powers. You could min/max your guy to get exactly what you wanted. Archers had a real advantage here, being able to maximize ranged attacks with this kind of stuff. The potential was scary.

 

[Terath Ninir]

One thing you might consider is just adding more ability scores. Have Aim and Agility as seperate scores, for example. Of course, that *really* might be too much work for you.

 

[Raflar]

I've created a character sheet for these new rules. You can find it on my website here: http://www.raflar.com/fantasyrpg/houserules.php

There is also a list explaining how the sub-stats affect other attributes (combat, AC, Saves etc..)

Any suggestions, or comments on things I've missed are appreciated. My next step is to create a page for Spell Casters (Spells, Turning and Familiar/Animal Companions/Mounts)

Thanks for you comments so far.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Hmm. Dex and Con both create hard choices -- both have vital things in each subability.

Muscle is better than Stamina for almost any character I would make.

Int is only a difficult decision if you're a wizard or other Int caster. Maybe if you put bonus languages under Reason it might be a little more of a choice for other characters.

Wis is again only a choice for Wis casters. However, given the low Wis of many other characters, and their frequent low Wis saves, I'm not really bugged by that.

Charisma -- hmm. It would depend on the character, I guess, which would be more important. I assume Leadership would be the stat for paladins, with Appearance for bards. What about Sorcerers, though? And how 'bout turn undead -- I'd guess Leadership, which fits for clerics and paladins.