2nd Edition Character Optimization (RMcD94)

[Endarire]

Originally posted by RMcD94:

After posting in the sticky thread and realising most of the content here is for 3rd edition I would love to see your guys thoughts on character optimization in second edition and how far it can go.

What's the most powerful level 1 character one can create? I am aware of one combination from this stream and the follow up here. I would be amazed if it's possible to do better than the 4 wielding katana Thri-kreen but there are many other books.


Are there any specific levels where another character becomes especially power, is there anything that one should always take if you want to create a strong character in a specific class?

What's the most powerful character ever?






Originally posted by Krusk:

For 2e? I believe a high strength dart thrower is usually pretty awesome.

Depending on the ammount of splats you can add an elven archer can get off a ton of damage.

This thread has a lot of good info.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10675.0


Originally posted by RMcD94:

Thanks a lot for the link Krusk.

I remember darts were mentioned specifically as being OP in combats and tactics.

"
The 16th-level Dart Specialist: It's ludicrous to allow a high-Strength character the
full benefit of his muscular power if he insists on using tiny little weapons such as darts.
A good way to address this kind of min-maxing is to limit the damage bonus granted by
high Strength to the maximum roll of the weapon's base damage. A dart normally causes
1d3 points of damage against size M targets, so a character with exceptional Strength
could gain a total of +3 to his dart's damage—but no more, even if he is normally entitled
to a damage bonus of +4 or more. "


Originally posted by RMcD94:

I also found this

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...scension-(BetaSquirrel)&p=6744345#post6744345

fantastic thread from the thread you linked which it seems the game is already broken. Infinite levels upon start!

 

[Gouneas]

I believe the strongest level 1 character that you can make would be a Tulani Eladrin Abyssal Warrior/Mage/Specialty Priest of Horus. You need to be in the planescape setting for this. With abyssal warrior your starting equipment can include a suit of armor, and a weapon of your choice, for these I would personally grab an antistoneskin spectral red sabre of disruption and a godly armor of the zodiac (armor type doesn't matter provided it does not hinder your dexterity bonus to AC). With the Tulani's base AC of -3 and the +5 bonus to AC from the godly armor you're already at -9 (when your base AC is better than that of your armor you receive a bonus of 1 rather than the AC for that armor). Many people are of the impression that -10 is the best AC any character can have in 2e but a lvl 12 Gold Dragon has -12 AC so I would argue the range in the PHB is not absolute. The spells you choose as a mage/priest don't matter very much because you are level 1, priest grants +3 wisdom because you are a Tulani Eladrin, and mage has the highest base nonweapon proficiencies of any class. If you are a member of the fated faction you can access all proficiency groups at no extra cost and have double your starting proficiencies. Using this feature you can spend an absolute ton of proficiency slots on the proficiencies from Requiem: The Grim Harvest which normally act as class abilities to be insanely powerful (I'd provide an exact list but it's pretty customizable) the only one you 100% need is intelligence bonus because for each 1 slot spent you get 1 point of intelligence, the amount of proficiency slots gained by the additional languages that are provided by high intelligence are then doubled by your fated bonus to double initial slots (since initial slots are any slots you have during character creation). I was able to hit a -14 AC (-15 against missiles) and had all of my stats above 20 using this method, Tulani is already a very powerful race and with Requiem: The Grim Harvest I do believe that no other PC can actually survive in a 1v1 against them. Keening would typically allow a lvl 1 to one-shot but you can grab bardic shield to practically guarantee a counter to that. With the passive prot evil granted by tulani you are also protected from level draining, and the magic jar proficiency. With the red sabre you are surrounded by an anti-magic shell that does not affect your own stuff and you can bypass any AC bonuses conferred by their armor. If they do not avoid melee you can use the paralysis proficiency to stun-lock them indefinitely and kill them, if they do avoid melee then it is highly unlikely that they can hit you considering tulani have a passive aura of protection from normal missiles, and can only be hit by +1 or better weapons. In the rare circumstance in which they do have a +1 or greater ranged weapon, you can assume one of the eladrin secondary forms (one of the faerie light ones, either sphere or globe just can't remember which) to become immune to physical attacks and approach them with your high flight speed, best any character can do is force a stalemate. The only thing I can think of that could be a potential weakness is psionic attacks but it is unlikely that a level 1 psionicist would have the means to defeat you, especially since the red sabre's anti-magic shell does still have some effects against spell-like abilities.

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

"antistoneskin spectral red sabre of disruption and a godly armor of the zodiac" - Gouneas

What sources did you use for the weapon and armor?

 

[James Gasik]

Hm.

Giant-Kin, Firbolg (Complete Book of Humanoids).

+2 Str (max of 19). Natural AC of 3 (can drop to 2 with 15 Dex, which is the maximum starting Dexterity). You start with 13 additional hit points at 1st-level. There's two ways to go here- the first is dual-wielding (using Ambidexterity and Two-Handed Style Specialization from Complete Fighter's Handbook) and exploiting this trait:

To dual-wield a pair of double-sized longswords with weapon specialization for a potential (with 19 Str) +4 to hit damage, 5/2 attacks per round at 2d8+9 (average 18 damage per hit).

You can use Wild Fighting if you have a high Con score (a proficiency in the Complete Book of Humanoids). It worsens your attack bonus and AC by 3 each, but you get an extra attack per round and +3 damage on attacks (bringing us up to 7/2 and 2d8+12) for up to two combats each day, but if you can't rest for an hour after it's use, you're basically useless due to the penalties.

On top of this, you can take the Berserker Kit from Complete Fighter's. It's harder to use this unless you have a Barbarian/Berserker Priest in your party (who, if they have the Incite Berserker Rage ability from their Priesthood, can cause you to start raging in 1 round (!).

But if you have a turn to work yourself into a frothing rage, that's another +1 to hit and +3 to damage!

The other way to do this is to specialize in Punching (Complete Fighter's Handbook) and use a pair of oversized cestuses. With Tumbling proficiency (easily gotten from the Gladiator Kit), and 1 slot devoted to Punching Specialization, you replace the damage on the punching chart with 2d4 (non-temporary) slashing damage. You get 2 attacks per round with a total (19 Str) of +6 to hit and +8 to damage. The writeup on the Cestus mentions you can use these with Two-Weapon Fighting as well (so with a slot devoted to Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Style Specialization, you have no penalties to hit) for an extra attack, bringing you up to 3/1. You also gain a small KO chance when you punch non-regenerating creatures, and this allows you to use the Firbolg's ability to swat away ranged attacks (6 or higher on a d20, up to two a round).

*This is contingent on the DM ruling that using the Cestus counts as having a free hand. This is never stated, but given that the weapon is intended to be used with Punching Specialization and it's basically a glove (and you can grab things with it, albeit at a penalty), this seems to be the intent. If the DM doesn't rule that way, you'd have to use a single Cestus and leave a hand free- this still gives you 2 attacks and the ability to counter ranged weapons though.

You can specialize in the cestus but you can only use the benefits of either weapon specialization or punching specialization each turn.

Note that you can combine this with Wild Fighting (and if you want to spend double slots on Tumbling, be a Berserker as well) allowing you to theoretically have four attacks per round (see * above) at +3 to hit and 2d4+11 damage with Wild Fighting (and +4/2d4+14 if you can rage on top of that!).

 

[James Gasik]

Now if you want all the spells, another way to go is Gnome Illusionist/Priest. Incoming rules to allow this:

(I've been told that expanding this text to allow Priests of a Specific Mythos from other books is a leap, but the Planeswalker's Companion multiclasses also use "Priest" instead of "Cleric", so I believe this is the intent. YMMV).

Gnomes do take a penalty to Wisdom, but it only takes a 14 to get 2 bonus 1st level Cleric spells, on top of your 2 Wizard spells for being a specialist, netting you 5 first level spells in total. Now this can be done with Illusionist/Cleric, but we can cheese this out to a whole other level as a multiclassed Mythos Priest.

If allowed, your best choice is probably something from the Forgotten Realms books (Faiths and Avatars or Powers and Pantheons), but I'll be looking at Monstrous Mythology and Legends and Lore for now.

Monstrous Mythology gives us some Gnome deities, including one that specifically allows Illusionist/Priests in the form of Baravar Cloakshadow. The important benefit with Baravar is that at 1st level, you can memorize Wizard Illusion/Phantasm spells with your Priest slots, giving you up to 5 illusion spells at 1st level!

Another option is Baervan Wildwanderer, who gives us the use of pass without trace twice per day at level 1!

There's also Urdlen, who grants stinking cloud 1/day...at first level!

There's some spicy options in Legends and Lore as well. We'll start with Lei Kung, who gives his priests all the abilities of a 3rd-level Thief...at first level!

There's also Osiris, who lets you use Wizard Necromancy spells as priest spells, Siva who grants immunity to fire damage, and Tyr who lets you cast hold person for free 1/day!

But wait, there's more! Both the Complete Priests and Complete Wizard's handbooks allow multi-classed characters to take Kits from those books (but only one Kit, not one for each class)! Spicy Options here are the Savage Wizard, who has three 1/week abilities, the Witch (who starts with magic items, though the DM has to set prices for them, so you might not get a lot, lol.), and the Pacifist Priest (who gets +2 Charisma!).

There's also the Fighting Monk for when the spells run out- even without a Strength bonus, +3 to hit and +1 to damage with 2 attacks and a potential KO chance isn't the worst thing ever, but you're going to have the Hit Points of a Thief and no armor, so...probably a choice of desperation only.

 

[James Gasik]

Jeez, I made those two posts only to realize this is a 9 year old thread. Doh!

 

[pemerton]

Jeez, I made those two posts only to realize this is a 9 year old thread.

Not anymore!

 

[Weiley31]

Necro(thread) for life

 

[FleshEatingBlackFlutterby]

Jeez, I made those two posts only to realize this is a 9 year old thread. Doh!

This is a lich tier thread. It will never truly die.
AD&D 2E optimization is still a thing.