[3.0] Grappling and AoOs

[Aulayan]

Well, technically I'm looking for an AE ruling here, but that's close enough to 3.0.

When a large creature who is 10 feet away from a medium creature tries to grapple it, would it cause an AOO. A player of mine was arguing that it wouldn't, that the Large creature was outside the medium's Threatened Area. I argued the logical side of it, that the Large creature was reaching into the Medium's Threat Zone to grab him, and thus the Medium would have an attack on the arms available.

This led to a rather long and involved argument, unfortunately, and thus I've decided to come to the experts.

 

[Cromm10k]

I say yes, the large creature would at least get one AoO from the person it tries to grapple (if it has no impr. grab). I don't have my books with me to completly figure it out.

 

[Thanee]

I remember, that there was a case like this (in the FAQs?), where the AoO was doable, because of the reason you mentioned. But don't quote me on it, I'm far from sure.

Bye
Thanee

 

[RigaMortus2]

On one side, there is no rule stating that people with reach don't provoke from trying to grapple. So could something with a 40' reach provoke as well?

On the other side, there isn't a rule to target specific body parts (ie I hit his arm as it comes into my threat area to try and grab me) either...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You provoke AoOs by performing particular actions in a threatened square.

If the medium creature does not threaten the large creature, then it doesn't get an AoO. The fact that it has to reach into the medium creature's square is immaterial - otherwise, every attack would provoke an AoO.

 

[dcollins]

When a large creature who is 10 feet away from a medium creature tries to grapple it, would it cause an AOO. A player of mine was arguing that it wouldn't, that the Large creature was outside the medium's Threatened Area.

By the rules as written, your player is correct. You can only take an AOO on a creature that is standing in your threatened area. It's pretty simple.

Some folks get confused because in D&D FAQ 3.0 p. 52 there's an answer that does specifically allow readying an action to use a touch spell on a creature with natural reach when it attacks you. (And specifically only that.)

Here's the more applicable ruling from the FAQ 3.5 p. 29-30:

If an enemy makes an attack against me that would
provoke an attack of opportunity (such as a disarm or
grapple attempt), do I get the attack of opportunity if I
can’t reach him? Would the Close-Quarters Fighting feat
help at all?

Strictly speaking, if you don’t threaten an enemy, you can’t
make attacks of opportunity against that enemy. Thus, if an
ogre tried to sunder your elf’s longsword from 10 feet away,
you wouldn’t get an attack of opportunity against the ogre
(since an elf wielding a longsword doesn’t threaten an enemy
10 feet away). This is true even if the ogre is reaching out with
his hand, such as when trying to grapple you.

Even the Close-Quarters Fighting feat doesn’t help, since
that feat applies only when the attack of opportunity against a
grappling foe normally would be denied by “a feat or special
ability that would normally bypass the attack” and lists
Improved Grapple and improved grab as examples.

If, as DM, this bothers your sensibilities and you and your
players are willing to bend the letter of the rules a bit, consider
the following house rule that the Sage has used in his games in
the past: If a foe would provoke an attack of opportunity with
any action that brings him (or something he holds) into contact
with you or your space, you may make an attack of opportunity
against the foe (or the object he holds, if that’s what’s
contacting you). This means that an ogre trying to initiate a
grapple would provoke an attack of opportunity that you could
make against the ogre (since his hand and arm are clearly
coming within your reach to grab you), while the same ogre
trying to sunder your weapon with his greatclub would provoke
an attack of opportunity that you could make only against the
greatclub (that is, with a disarm or sunder attempt).

 

[Aulayan]

Is it me, or is it rather odd that the guy who was pretty much "The Man" of D&D Rules has a houserule to get around a rule?

Thank you for the FAQ posting. It does clear, as well as muddy, things up quite a bit.