[3.0] Need help creating a fighter of undead

[daemonslye]

From the (3.0) SRD

Ghost Touch
Both the enhancement bonus and the armor bonus of this armor or shield count against the attacks of incorporeal creatures. Further, it can be picked up, moved, and worn by incorporeal creatures at any time. Incorporeal creatures gain the armor or shield’s enhancement bonus against both corporeal and incorporeal attacks, and they can still pass freely through solid objects.
Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, etherealness; Market Price: +3 bonus.

It is not clear to me that it protects agains "touch" attacks;
However, what other attacks do incorp. creatures have? duh.
Any other opinions? References?

I like Sunbeam, but that would take you one more Druid level.

Exactly. Druids are awesome, but I am not sure I would be
optimized in this world/party.

[Hunter of the Dead.....]Why is it a joke?

You are right - Not a joke and not powerful enough at
the level I am playing at (12) for a potential "one-off"
long game.

If you're playing a fighter type, consider taking a level of ranger and dual-wielding ghost touch disrupting weapons.

Good (if expensive) suggestion - But I want to finalize on
'concept' before I spend too much time looking at equipment
(though such magic will factor into the final calculation).

So where I am at:

Forsaker - Will likely be running around without DR for
some of the time (though will keep the ability to hit
creatures with DR - unless this has been errata'ed).
Reasonably powerful, but without magic, mobility
suffers and he is a magnet for incorp. touch and
vampire draining attacks.

Foe Hunter - Can use magic for defense - A cleric
level with the mysticism domain and a wand of
neg plane prot. might work.

Shifter - Complex to play but great mobility options
and just a level shy of getting incorp. forms (doh!).
I would be interested of any good tactics or nice
combo items with this one if anyone has thoughts
on this. I assume I can take a feat to boost the
number of times I can wildshape/shift per day.

No major new revelations, but good ideas on
refinements so far. Thanks!

~D

 

[sithramir]

I also miss why Hunter of the dead isn't an amazing choice?

I guess at lower levels it is. But at a lvl 12 he could have 8th level Hunter of the Dead next level. He basically smacks all undead down with positive energy burst. Thats like such an insane ability. 8d6 damage to all undead in 50' radius? With a decent set up he can have like 12 turning attempts or more a day. Thats 6 uses of that. He can smite armies or one big large undead all day long with range!

Seems pretty nice to me. Plus he has great saves and other nifty things which is a nice benefit.

 

[Jai Kel]

How about the Undead Stalker from the DMG?

p.175, Creating New Classes

Here's an example of tweaking the Ranger into the Undead Stalker.

 

[daemonslye]

Found on the web

HD: d10
Skills: 4+int
Spells: undead focused - caster lvl 1/2 (dc=wis)
Track: (undead only)
Undead Lore: (also gets the damage bonus) +1/5 lvls
Holy Strike: d6/2 lvls "positive energy" similar to sneak attack
Smite Undead: regular smite vs undead
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting: at BAB+9

Is this it? (...Travelling w/out books);

Seems pretty good - nice flavor. I really like the "always
on" nature of the foe hunter's bonus. But, with the right
scores (CHA), tactics and feats, one should be able to
apply the +6d6 on a fairly regular basis (assuming a few
henchmen/creatures hanging around).

I'll have to check out the hardcopy dmg later. Thanks!

~D

 

[drnuncheon]

Forsaker - Will likely be running around without DR for
some of the time (though will keep the ability to hit
creatures with DR - unless this has been errata'ed).
Reasonably powerful, but without magic, mobility
suffers and he is a magnet for incorp. touch and
vampire draining attacks.

The biggest trouble here is that you will be utterly helpless against incorporeal creatures, because you won't be able to use a magic or a ghost touch weapon. Even your 'natural weapon' ability won't help, since that only makes it effectively magical for overcoming damage reduction (and you only have that ability when you've been able to destroy magic items)

J

 

[Zogg]

Check out the dreaded...........

JUJU ZOMBIE!!!

in the Unapproachable East book for the FRCS. It's pretty cool.

 

[daemonslye]

The biggest trouble here is that you will be utterly helpless against incorporeal creatures, because you won't be able to use a magic or a ghost touch weapon. Even your 'natural weapon' ability won't help, since that only makes it effectively magical for overcoming damage reduction

True. True.

...(and you only have that ability when you've been able to destroy magic items)

Based on the wording, I suppose I must agree.

"Juju Zombie"

Yeah......... Well, it seems, in this world, the higher level
undead (the "bad guys") have the ability to control the
lower level undead ("me" - in this case). So - thanks, but
I'll keep looking for a career.

~D

 

[reapersaurus]

I also miss why Hunter of the dead isn't an amazing choice?

Because the class is fundamentally flawed : it doesn't fill the role it's supposed to satisfy.


It's supposed to be able to track down and root out and destroy undead - not with Detect Undead as their only ability in this regard.

It's supposed to be the bane of undead: tell me- how is it deadlier against undead than a cleric?
Most of its abilities are defensive in nature, with 2 exceptions : True Death, and the Positive Energy burst.

True Death (to me) is more of a metagaming benefit, useful just to not have the rare undead come back.
Positive Energy Burst is nice, but 8d6, save for half, isn't exactly the ultimate weapon against undead (only 4 times per day, most likely). IF you were surrounded by a ton of them within range, sure that'd be impressive damage done, but that's an extremely rare situation, I'd wager.

Compare a 13th level HotD (which is the earliest possible Burst - more likely, it'd be higher level, if you used cleric levels instead of paladin to qualify) to a 13th level cleric.
The cleric, using Searing Light, gets 10d6 or 10d8 damage vs undead, and it's at greater range. No save, Ray, touch attack (easy). And that's a 3rd level spell!

Sunbeam and Sunburst (with the Sun domain) slaughter undead...

And the Hunter is only a d8 HD!
Also, Smite Undead is pathetically weak (based on Hunter levels, only once per day), they have bad saves (except vs undead, and that requires high Will). The high Will requirement presumes a cleric build, which would make the Hunter 7th level cleric for entry, total level before Burst is 15th!
Throw in the WEAK spells (which don't combine with any cleric spells he had), and you've got an incredibly sub-par "Undead Killer", even compared to straight core classes.

Much less if you used a cleric/fighter PrC, like Radiant Servant of Pelor, or Hospitaler, the comparison gets even worse for the Hunter.
Bolt of Glory (6th level) is killer, if you have the Glory domain (Hospitaler) - 13d6 or 15d6 in this case, No save, etc.

If a PrC's sole function is to eradicate undead, I'd certainly expect their damage potential vs undead to be better than a base cleric.
I always looked at the Hunter with pity, figuring "Damn - they dedicated their lives to opposing undead, and they got THAT boring, uncreative, and weak abilities by which to do so?"

 

[reapersaurus]

daemon - I think the Forsaker is a really bad match for an undead-killer.
If you want some ideas, there's a half-modified Dragon-Killer PrC on my website here:
http://webs.lanset.com/mlw/bane.htm

It would at least perform its role of destroying undead better than a fighter or cleric could.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. KoK has the Order of the Slayers... another undead hunting organisation.