D&D 3E/3.5 3.0 Savage Species vs. 3.5 Monster Characters

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I've been asking lots of 3.0 related questions lately (mainly because I pulled all of my old books out and have been comparing the two editions in preperation to play in an "all 3.0" campaign), so please bare with me.

I noticed that the monsters in the 3.5 monster manual, along with some info in the 3.5 DMG pretty much cover entirely how to create monster characters in 3.5. In looking at 3.0 (or 3rd Edition, or however you refer to it) Savage Species, the process seems to be a little more involved, but that may be because everything is not listed out nice and neat in the 3.0 Monster Manual.

Anyway, my question is (for those of you who have actually played monster characters using Savage Species in 3.0, and the MM/DMG in 3.5):

What is actually different between monster characters created using Savage Species, and those created using only the 3.5 Monster Manual and DMG ?

Thanks!

 

[Terwox]

A big difference is that you can play a minotaur at level 1 with savage species -- until the other characters reach your ECL, you "grow up" into a minotaur with full stats, then start taking a character class.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Also, once you start playing a monster class from Savage Species you must complete the monster class before you can start taking levels in any other classes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sav Spec hit a niche that was not hit when it came out: monster characters.

Now, a lot of suitable monsters have LA's. So that removed that usefulness.

Sav Spec still has many monster classes, which are +1 awesome, but still....

HD need to work in a universal fashion, IMHO.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Now, a lot of suitable monsters have LA's.

For 3.5 when you start play as a monster character you take you LA and add it to your racial hit dice, ignoring 1 hit die or lower. The resulting number is your Effective Character Level or ECL for short. If you start play as a 1st level Hobgoblin Paladin you are the equivalent of a second level character.

 

[erdamon]

As someone else said, savage species provided the monster classes that let you play a character though its development period (monster levels + level adjustment). Instead of having to start the toon after this period.

So someone can be mino in a 1st level game instead of the game having to be 8th min.

 

[Melkor]

Thanks all for the info.

 

[billd91]

As someone else said, savage species provided the monster classes that let you play a character though its development period (monster levels + level adjustment). Instead of having to start the toon after this period.

So someone can be mino in a 1st level game instead of the game having to be 8th min.

It did, but it had its limitations. Level adjustments had a narrow band of effectiveness - mainly with classes that were martial. With spell casting classes, there were problems. There was a playtest description of City of the Spider Queen, IIRC, where the players had a menagerie of savage species characters because the book was also under development. And the level adjustments meant their spellcasters were significantly underpowered for the challenges of the adventure. There were casters that were 4th or 5th level in an adventure designed for 10-18th level. Sure, that caster could pack a punch in a fisticuff, but penetrate their target's spell resistance? I wouldn't be placing any bets.

 

[amethal]

That's a very impressive piece of thread necromancy!

Another problem with the 3.5 system is if a monster had racial hit dice those were treated as being the equivalent to character levels, when they usually weren't. Thus a 2 hit dice lizardfolk with a +1 level adjustment (if that's what they had - I can't remember) is the equivalent of a 3rd level character but those two humanoid hit dice didn't give much in the way of benefits.

Also, they deliberately erred on the side of caution when determining level adjustments so some of them are pretty harsh.

 

[billd91]

I do not even know how this thread presented itself to me today. It wasn't at the bottom of another thread since I don't look at those. It's really weird.