D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] AoO provoking AoO

[Li Shenron]

Is there anything new in 3.5 about being able to use as an AoO an attack which itself provokes another AoO? I always hated this rule.

 

[AuraSeer]

Is there anything new in 3.5 about being able to use as an AoO an attack which itself provokes another AoO? I always hated this rule.

I didn't see anything about it. If you attempt a disarm as an AoO, without Improved Disarm, you will still provoke a return-AoO.

One thing I noticed is that the wording of Combat Reflexes has changed. Instead of being limited to one attack per opponent per round, you can take one attack per opportunity. That means two fighters with Combat Reflexes can now set up long strings of AoO back and forth. I happen to like the change, but I'm guessing it won't be popular...

 

[melkoriii]

AoO should not provoke AoO.

Else combats will take 2-3 game nights.

 

[AuraSeer]

AoO should not provoke AoO.

Else combats will take 2-3 game nights.

Maybe they shouldn't, but they do.

Anyway it's only a problem if both combatants have Combat Reflexes, and they both choose special attack maneuvers without the special feats. That sort of situation doesn't come up often. (E.g., someone who disarms often will probably have Improved Disarm, so he won't provoke AoO doing it.)

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yep, not specifically addressed. Shouldn't come up too often, though.

 

[Li Shenron]

Re: Re: [3.5] AoO provoking AoO

One thing I noticed is that the wording of Combat Reflexes has changed. Instead of being limited to one attack per opponent per round, you can take one attack per opportunity. That means two fighters with Combat Reflexes can now set up long strings of AoO back and forth.

The thing that I hate most is that AoO are always resolved BEFORE the action which provoked them.

It's easy to come up with scary example of messy sequences.

I try to drink a potion in front of an opponent, he gets an AoO immediately BEFORE me, and perhaps chooses to trip me, but maybe doesn't have ImprTrip or Trip weapons so proveokes an AoO from me, and I decide to disarm him provoking an AoO (so far no one needs Combat Reflexes). You can go on with him choosing to sunder my weapon as an AoO...

All the actions happen in the opposite order: sunder, disarm, trip, drink a potion. If sunder is successful, the DM can't let me disarm him, but he can then also trip me. If disarm is successful, the DM can't let him trip me. Not to mention that if disarm fails he get also an an automatic attempt to disarm me, in the middle of his sundering and tripping. At the end of 3-4 rolls I still get to drink my potion.

I don't want to think whether it's realistic or unrealistic. I just think it's sick.

Would have been so broken to rule that you can do AoO only when it's NOT your turn?

 

[Tellerve]

well if you don't have improved disarm and your disarm fails they get a disarm on you but you don't get an AoO. And so at least in that instance the circle of AoOs is broken, as it should be.

Tellerve

 

[Silver Griffon]

Re: Re: Re: [3.5] AoO provoking AoO

The thing that I hate most is that AoO are always resolved BEFORE the action which provoked them.

It's easy to come up with scary example of messy sequences.

I try to drink a potion in front of an opponent, he gets an AoO immediately BEFORE me, and perhaps chooses to trip me, but maybe doesn't have ImprTrip or Trip weapons so proveokes an AoO from me, and I decide to disarm him provoking an AoO (so far no one needs Combat Reflexes). You can go on with him choosing to sunder my weapon as an AoO...

All the actions happen in the opposite order: sunder, disarm, trip, drink a potion. If sunder is successful, the DM can't let me disarm him, but he can then also trip me. If disarm is successful, the DM can't let him trip me. Not to mention that if disarm fails he get also an an automatic attempt to disarm me, in the middle of his sundering and tripping. At the end of 3-4 rolls I still get to drink my potion.

Oh no!!!
It's the Magic: The Gathering "stack"!

 

[youspoonybard]

True, but there is the combat reflexes dex mod limit...

and just hit the guy already!

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Re: Re: Re: [3.5] AoO provoking AoO

It's easy to come up with scary example of messy sequences.

"Easy to come up with" and "actually happens frequently in the game" are two different things, though. I've only occasionally seen the case of even a single return AoO triggered by an AoO, and can't recall for certain that I've ever seen a longer chain than that.