D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] buff spell option?

[Negative Zero]

i know a lot of people think the change to the buff spells is a good one. if you're one of those people, this thread isn't for you.

i just wanted to mention the change that we've settled on in our game that works for us, and might work for you if you're undecided about them.

when a WIZ learns any one of the "animal buff" spells, he learns two forms of that spell. the first is as written in the 3.5 PHB. the second is more of a ritual that works as the 3.0 PHB but takes longer to cast. we use 10 minutes, but you can change it to anything that you feel is more appropriate, say 30 mins or an hour.

just a thought, i figured others might benefit from.
comments?

~NegZ

 

[Seule]

If I was keeping the 3.0 buff spells duration, I'd probably change the bonus to a flat +2. Before 3.5 was announced I considered this, along with a 4th level version at +4, and a 6th level version at +6. That could work for you.

--Seule

 

[Keia]

For our group, we are making the change to 3.5 for the buff spells, and including the following spells (researched at some point by unknown wizards and a standard part of the 'house' rules) at the respective level:

2nd level - duration 1 minute / level (as per 3.5)
3rd level - duration 10 minutes / level (to prevent the 'room race')
4th level - duration 1 hour per / level (as per 3.0)

This allows the characters that really want the duration to pay for it at the cost of not having some higher level spells. In addition, we feel it makes some sense since persistent is +3 level and would fit in nicely with our progression.

Keia

 

[KnowTheToe]

For our group, we are making the change to 3.5 for the buff spells, and including the following spells (researched at some point by unknown wizards and a standard part of the 'house' rules) at the respective level:

2nd level - duration 1 minute / level (as per 3.5)
3rd level - duration 10 minutes / level (to prevent the 'room race')
4th level - duration 1 hour per / level (as per 3.0)

This allows the characters that really want the duration to pay for it at the cost of not having some higher level spells. In addition, we feel it makes some sense since persistent is +3 level and would fit in nicely with our progression.

Keia

I think this works well.

 

[Henry]

Persistent is +4 levels, instead of +3.

Neg Zero - My opinion is that no matter what the casting time, any party (outside of those strictly avoiding it for roleplaying reasons) will gladly take the long casting time to cast the hour per level duration version of this spell. I think you may find this out through play, but your play experiences obviously may vary.

Since most parties will "buff up" at the start of the day, or before going into danger, whether it takes 1 round or ten minutes (or an hour) is iirelevant. It just means to me that they will be casting a few less, but putting them on the ones it most benefits, and trading stat-boosting items to even out the enhancements.

I could definitely get behind a +2 for all day version of the ritual, because it is quickly eclipsed at 6th or 7th level by the gradual introduction of stat-boosting items. My take would suggest having a "ritual" version that only gave you a +2 for hours, but alternately allowing it to throw all the power into one "shot" that works as the 3.5e spell.

BTW, I will move this to house rules, because it seems to belong there more than anywhere else.

 

[Voadam]

For our group, we are making the change to 3.5 for the buff spells, and including the following spells (researched at some point by unknown wizards and a standard part of the 'house' rules) at the respective level:

2nd level - duration 1 minute / level (as per 3.5)
3rd level - duration 10 minutes / level (to prevent the 'room race')
4th level - duration 1 hour per / level (as per 3.0)

This allows the characters that really want the duration to pay for it at the cost of not having some higher level spells. In addition, we feel it makes some sense since persistent is +3 level and would fit in nicely with our progression.

Keia

Persistent spell was +3 in FRCS, it got updated to +4 in T&B, I got surprised on that midcampaign after my 8th level caster had been using it for a level when the DM said "Oh no, I'm going with the more recent version."

Generally, persistent spell's bonus added to the base spell should be lower level than upping the spell level to effectively all day (in the first insatance you have a spell plus a second tier feat, in the second one just a spell anybody can cast).

 

[handforged]

what about letting the 3.0 duration count for a range of personal, and the 3.5 duration count for a range of touch? This way, caster's can use their magic to make up for their weaknesses, but they won't be leaving their friends buffed all day long.

~hf

 

[IndyPendant]

Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with keeping the 3.5e version the same, except with a flat duration change to 10 minutes/level? I was planning to do this myself, and thought it a no-brainer, yet no one's suggested it yet. Am I missing something? Would this be considered too powerful for a 2nd level spell? And if so, why?

 

[Lela]

what about letting the 3.0 duration count for a range of personal, and the 3.5 duration count for a range of touch? This way, caster's can use their magic to make up for their weaknesses, but they won't be leaving their friends buffed all day long.

~hf

The Buff spells are spread out among the spellcasting classes according to who can best use them (except that Sor/Wiz get all of them). For example, Paladins and Rangers have Bull's Strength (among others). That area is not a weakness for them.

Of course, in the case of Pals and Rgrs, the CL is lower, so it has less of an effect. Other classes would get the full effect though.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work. I'm just saying you should take the above into acount.


Also, for Str, has Enlarge changed? I've noticed it's somewhat better in 3.0 than Bull's Strength for short durations. Wouldn't it be far better in 3.5e? Especally considering you already have 5th caster level by the time you can get Bull's Strength.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Persistent spell was +3 in FRCS, it got updated to +4 in T&B, I got surprised on that midcampaign after my 8th level caster had been using it for a level when the DM said "Oh no, I'm going with the more recent version."

This is incorrect. Persistent Spell was +4 levels in the FRCS as well.