3.5 Complexity Revisited: Core Books Only, Low Levels . . .

[Gilladian]

I love running 3e. I don't find it too complex at all. But!

We use the 3 core books, PHII, and the Spell Compendium (with some limitations). We never play beyond 12th level, rarely use level draining monsters, and don't grapple "often" (maybe 1-2x per character level).

I would say that 3e and 3.5 are just about equal in complexity. The longer durations of certain buff spells means they get used a lot more, but since they last a whole day of adventuring, mostly, there's rarely a reason to need to recalculate. Everything else is a wash.

 

[Runestar]

Don't forget tome of battle as well. I can't imagine myself playing a fighter ever again...

 

[an_idol_mind]

3rd edition with just the core is great, in my opinion. I've run campaigns at all level ranges (except epic) without any difficulty. Maybe I'm an exception, but I've never seen the game as complex, nor have I had much of a desire to use the splatbooks that came out for 3.5.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't think that it's too complex if you stick to the three core books and low levels, but it's certainly more complex than dozens of other games on the market (including several d20 variants).

 

[Benimoto]

I don't think 3.5 gets too painfully complicated at levels 1-8. But still, my own back-to-3.5 experiences was that it took very little time for the sheer mass of rules to get on my nerves.

Little things, like how if you charge or run, it has to be in a straight line and you can't even clip the corner of an ally or difficult terrain square seem unnecessary and kind of petty now.

To look at on a wider scale, 3.5 seems to have the attitude that you can attempt almost anything, just that there's going to be some sort of disadvantage to make it balanced. The problem is that it's hard to remember the whole list of what you can do and what it will cost you. So then you just spend a lot of time referencing and cross referencing, just to do something fairly simple, like pass a weapon to your friend, push a kobold off a balcony, or even just use a class feature like turn undead. And because there are fairly strictly defined rules for all of these things, it's somehow harder to just make a DM call.

So, it really depends on your threshold for "painfully complex" is, and how willing you are to either memorize the combat chapter, make quick calls, or spend gaming time looking up rules

 

[knightofround]

To answer the original question, I think 3.5 is easier to DM than 3.0. Just because they fixed a lot of gunk in the rules. Plus, you got all the 3.0 errata included in the print version of 3.5.

But yeah to echo what everyone has said here, D&D E6 sounds like a perfect match for you.

 

[SpiderMonkey]

I think you'll be fine with lower level 3.5; While I don't see myself going back to 3rd, I think the lower levels of 3.5 are really fun and fairly simple, particularly if you're sticking with the 3 core books. I'll also put a vote in for E6. I haven't actually played it, but it has that je ne sais quois that for whatever reason reminds me of B/E.

3.5 > 3.0 in my opinion, and helps (somewhat) address some of the cherry-picking multiclassing that plagued even low level games.

 

[Henry]

Sticking to levels under 10th, just core books, and at most a few case-by-case additions, 3e is not that bad an affair. Other than a few rough edges like Grappling rules, it's manageable. If I were running it, I'd still use my "quick and dirty NPC" system, and in fact I've considered playing around with trying to port over the Monster design rules from 4e into 3.5 before - the only problem is the math still has too much variation in 3e to make it a smooth option. (Most skills aren't bad if you limit skill boosting magic and items, but diplomacy and bluff are still spoilsports thanks to the half-dozen or so synergies thoughout the skill system for them.)

But yeah, 3.5 with those limitations would still be quite easy for a DM to run with even little to no prep time.

 

[Ourph]

I never found that adding in splatbooks had much to do with making the game more or less complex. The splats in 3e are mostly filled with player options. Unless you're building a lot of NPCs, they don't really affect the DM's job. What I found complex about running 3e was 1) Building NPCs past about 8th level (or casters past about 3rd level), 2) Modifying monsters according to the RAW; 3) Adjudicating mid-to-high level combat where lots of buff/debuff spells were involved; and 4) Running monsters that deviated from the "Rawr! I have lots of hit points and can hit you really hard, in the face." paradigm (i.e. intelligent creatures with spell-like or special-case abilities).

After several years of trying, I could never find a way to eliminate or even minimize those problems in 3e without either sticking to very low level games or running a very limited campaign that satisfied neither me nor my players.

 

[Henry]

I never found that adding in splatbooks had much to do with making the game more or less complex.

I can think of a couple of examples:

1) Several feats from Complete Warrior and other sources that modified the Grappling rules. They added a lot of exceptions to grappling, such that if anyone in the group took the whole suite of them, it morphed grappling from "overly complex" into "a sub-game unto itself that six veteran players even had a hard time deciphering." The DM usually just said, "you win" when the player starting grappling something, or vice versa, because the rules slowed us to a crawl.

2) Spell Compendium. The core spells by themselves were tough but manageable; if that one book is added as an option to all casters, a lot of corver-case spells are added, ones where some conjurations allow spell resistance, some transmutations and evocations don't allow it, some spells where the caster treats attacks with the spell one way, others where he treats attacks a different way, etc. It's a fun book for casters, but it really slows things down if used without restriction.

In my experience, the base classes and combat rules didn't cause us as much headache as the prestige classes and the added spells and feats. And if there's one thing I really wanted the 3e monster manuals to do, it was to add in the bonuses from various spells and effects as part of the stat block somewhere in it - Things like the unholy aura for pit fiends, the mage armor for Ak'chazzar Rakshasa, etc. Just a parenthetical for having the creature all buffed out when encountered.