D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Darkness questions

[Magus Coeruleus]

1. Do you think a Color Spray (1st level spell) can penetrate into a Darkness (2nd level spell) effect? If so, would you give targets an ad hoc save bonus for being in the Darkness?

2. Darkness creates "shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance)." Does this mean that if cast in an area of complete, nonmagical darkness, this spell actually increases visibility?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

1. Do you think a Color Spray (1st level spell) can penetrate into a Darkness (2nd level spell) effect? If so, would you give targets an ad hoc save bonus for being in the Darkness?

2. Darkness creates "shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance)." Does this mean that if cast in an area of complete, nonmagical darkness, this spell actually increases visibility?

1. Color Spray isn't a [Light] spell so it wouldn't be negated by darkness; it would function normally.

2. A strict interpretation might read it as such. That of course puts you in the rather silly position that if casting darkness in natural darkness increases visibility, then following that with a casting of daylight reduces visibility. I'm going to rule that "shadowy illumination" means "adding shadows to existing illumination", so that darkness will decrease, rather than increase, a given illumination level.

 

[drnuncheon]

2. Darkness creates "shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance)." Does this mean that if cast in an area of complete, nonmagical darkness, this spell actually increases visibility?

Well, the first sentence is flavor text, so ignore it for rules discussions. The second sentence, the game effect, is still active - all the people in the total darkness also gain concealment, which does not stack with the total concealment they get from the total darkness. (However, they would get that concealment from combatants with darkvision.)

J
thinks it should have been renamed to 'shadows' or something

 

[brehobit]

Well, the first sentence is flavor text, so ignore it for rules discussions.

I'd disagree with this. If the spell had a different name (say shadows as suggested) I think we'd have a general agreement it _did_ create illumination. Which is more "favor" the name or that sentence? Not sure. But if the spell says it creates illumination, I'd say it creates illumination....

 

[green slime]

Yet another spell nerf. Why this one?

 

[DreamChaser]

Why this one? To keep it from rendering a party completely useless. It is still effective though, just more level appropriate.

And, btw, "shadowy illumination" has to be flavor text because it is a contradiction in terms. Shadow is the opposite of light (what do you think darkness is at night; we're sitting in the earth's shadow) and illumination is from the Latin for light. Thus shadow illumination = oxymoron.

DC

 

[Staffan]

Shadow is the opposite of light (what do you think darkness is at night; we're sitting in the earth's shadow) and illumination is from the Latin for light. Thus shadow illumination = oxymoron.

I kind of like the Dark Sun interpretation that shadows are what you get between darkness and light. Thus, effects that are shadowbased need both to be at their peak strength.

 

[Bauglir]

I don't know if you would call this a nerf. While you can't plunge an area into 100% darkness, you can now cast the spell on yourself, and enjoy a 20% miss chance, as well as sneak attack immunity, while you can still easily throw targetted spells out. It's kind of like Blur with an area of effect, balanced by a downside; it affects the attacks of allies as well as enemies.

Seems like a fairly balanced spell to me

 

[Rashak Mani]

Deeper Darkness also is "shadowy illumination" 60 feet. This certainly seems like a f%#@-up to me. Darkness was usually for running away or creating chaos in enemy lines. Now it just makes things hazy and 20% harder to see.

They should just call it mass blur or something silly but not Darkness. Obscuring Mist spell 3.0 would do a better job since it block vision.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Deeper Darkness also is "shadowy illumination" 60 feet. This certainly seems like a f%#@-up to me. Darkness was usually for running away or creating chaos in enemy lines. Now it just makes things hazy and 20% harder to see.

They should just call it mass blur or something silly but not Darkness. Obscuring Mist spell 3.0 would do a better job since it blocks vision.