D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Darkness spell is not dark...

[coyote6]

Well presumably, the Darkness spell would not function in conditions darker than the one it creates.

Why? It says it creates illumination, albeit of a shadowy type. The section of the PH on vision & light defines what "shadowy illumination" means.

Has anyone noticed that creatures with low-light vision can't actually see any better in areas of "shadowy illumination" than creatures with normal vision? Low-light vision allows the character to, "see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light and of shadowy illumination for such characters." If you have X feet radius of shadowy illumination and 0 feet radius bright light (e.g., a candle), someone with low-light vision gets 2X feet worth of shadowy illumination -- but no reduction in the penalties for shadowy illumination -- and 0 feet of bright light. So, despite what the darkness spell description implies, low-light vision doesn't actually help you in low-light situations.

 

[wolfen]

QUESTION ON DARKNESS

QUESTION: How would you calculate the chance of identifying something within the Darkness? Like Caltrops in a puddle of oil?

I used to play a Thief/Illusionist. One favorite old school use of Darkness:

Cast it near a door/entrance after laying oil and caltrops down. Only takes a minute to put this together and it usually slows your pursuers down much longer than that.

Assume stone or nice wood flooring in a bldg you've infiltrated. Bonuses for the (invisible) caltrops to hit, penalties to keeping upright because of both caltrops AND oil. Slipping and falling in a square full of caltrops is its own special hell. They scream to their friends "Don't come through here!"

And tada! Off you go...A very effective use of a low level spell.

Theoretically you could time an accompanying fire by lighting up the oil...but I just got the heck away before they showed up.

I miss the REAL Darkness.

wolfen

 

[Vanye]

shadowy illumination -- and 0 feet of bright light. So, despite what the darkness spell description implies, low-light vision doesn't actually help you in low-light situations.

If you can see 2X area as shadowy illumination, you're doing better than the person who only sees X...because if the person doing the attacking is doing so from 2X distance, you'll be able to attack them with only 20% chance of missing, vs the 50% chance that the victime would have...I'd say that helps.

 

[HeavyG]

Another joke is that if you are a rogue who casts darkness on yourself and can see (which everyone can now) the target, even if you have blindsight, you cannot sneak attack them. That's right. Shadowy areas prevent sneak attack... so no sneaking around for rogues! Bad rogues trying to be sneaky!

Even in regular shadows not of the spell variety you can only sneak attack if you have Light, Darkvision, or Blindsight.

It makes sense that concealment negates sneak attacks. After all, you can barely see your target, so it would be hard to stab them in a sensitive spot.

What doesn't make much sense, however, is that concealment usually applies uniformly regardless of distance. In the case of the darkness spell, I would rule that the concealment (and miss chance) doesn't apply when you are within 5' of your target (like the fog spells I think ?). Thus, you would sneak within 10' of your target, then surprise them with a 5' step/sneak attack.

Knife in the Dark [General]
Prerequisite: Blind-Fight, sneak attack +3d6.
Benefit: You are able to make sneak attacks against creatures with concealment.

Well, I don't like solving realism problems by requiring a feat, personally. Not to mention that it doesn't make much sense, frankly, to be able to sneak attack invisible opponents and so on.

Apart from the house rule above, you could do this :

Sneak up to someone.

Surprise round : Grapple the surprised sentry or whatever.

Round 1 (if you win initiative) : Sneak attack the bastard with your dagger. (I would assume that grappling with someone would remove any miss chance and if it isn't a rule, it should be).


This fits the classical movie commando grab/stab move.

 

[Tellerve]

Of course your "wasting" an attack grappling, and I haven't seen any rules for getting bonuses on grappling a suprised opponent but I would imagine they should be at least decent. And then assuming you have two attacks, you would get the second one to be a sneak since the sentry is flat-footed, but in dnd unless he's a low level sentry or your a high level rogue, you'll probably not drop him with a sneak attack dagger. And in the following rounds he'll be grappling you and getting his dex versus you so no more sneak attacks.

It would be nice if there was some mechanic for sneak attacking a creature right next to you in the dark. Either a spot check at a certain dc or something. The knife in the dark feat is a nice attempt but I don't like it so much. I'd rather there be something not built around a feat. Or two feats for that matter since you need blind-fight as a pre-req.

Tellerve

 

[The Little Raven]

It would be nice if there was some mechanic for sneak attacking a creature right next to you in the dark. Either a spot check at a certain dc or something. The knife in the dark feat is a nice attempt but I don't like it so much. I'd rather there be something not built around a feat. Or two feats for that matter since you need blind-fight as a pre-req.

"It's pitch black, you can't see anything."
"Can I make a Spot check to see anything."
*smack*

A Spot check... in complete darkness... that's really... impossible. If you can't see anything, then you can't spot anything.

And as for Blind-Fight, it's an excellent feat for rogues... lessee here... First off, you get to reroll ANY miss chance from concealment (which is good for blur and all spells related, with the exception of blink)... you suffer only half the normal penalty when moving in darkness, so a silently moving rogue doesn't have to move at 1/4 speed any longer. Invisible attackers no longer get a +2 bonus to attack you.

Seems good for rogues, especially with that need for cover or concealment to use Hide effectively... but concealment ruins their chances of a sneak attack. Interesting dilemma.

Well.. since Blind-Fight is made for characters to fight creatures in the dark, I think it makes sense that anything else building on the ability to fight effectively in the dark uses this feat as a prerequisite. Hence the description: "You know how to fight in melee without being able to see your foes."

---

EDIT: Remember, in complete darkness, you are considered blinded. A blinded character automatically FAILS all Spot checks.

 

[The Little Raven]

Well, I don't like solving realism problems by requiring a feat, personally.

So you don't like a lot of feats, considering a good deal of them?

Person A and Person B grew up together. They went to the same schools and learned the same basic things, but there are differences between the two.

Person A can run faster than Person B. Person A has the Run feat, making him run faster.

Person A can endure more punishment than Person B. Person A has the Endurance feat (or the Toughness feat, if refering to hit points).

Person A is better with a longsword than Person B. Person A has Weapon Focus (longsword).

Three examples of "realism problems" solved by requiring feats.

 

[HeavyG]

Three examples of "realism problems" solved by requiring feats.

And yet you do not need the Run feat to run, it just makes you better at it.

If you absolutely needed the Run feat to run, then I wouldn't like it much.

 

[The Little Raven]

And yet you do not need the Run feat to run, it just makes you better at it.

If you absolutely needed the Run feat to run, then I wouldn't like it much.

You don't need the Endurance feat to resist nonlethal damage from environments. It makes you better at it.

You don't need the Weapon Focus feat to attack with a longsword. It makes you better at it.

You don't need the Blind-Fight feat to attack someone with concealment. It makes you better at it.

You cannot normally make a sneak attack against a person with concealment, but my feat allows you to do so. You still suffer the concealment miss chance, as per fighting against concealment, but you can apply your sneak attack if it applies to your target.

 

[wolfen]

So anyway, about Darkness....

How do you deal with someone trying to read a book, notice and recognize caltrops on the floor, or see a puddle of oil while in the area of magical Darkness?


wolfen