D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Darkness spell is not dark...

[JLXC]

Ummm Darkness and it's big brother only create a "Shadowy area" that provides concealment and allows Hide to be used effectively? This is the 20% miss concealment, meaning you can target beings in darkness no sweat, but have the miss chance.

This mean casting Darkness IN a real dark area like a cave, then lights up the cave creating a Shadowy area. Seriously. It's in the rules though it is very hard to believe.

Discuss.

 

[Particle_Man]

Hmmm...I wonder if a shadow evocation of a continual flame would create a "Darkness" effect of shadowy light instead?

Just a thought...

I never thought that darkness could (partially) light up an otherwise totally dark area. But I don't have the books with me.

 

[gfunk]

Well presumably, the Darkness spell would not function in conditions darker than the one it creates. For instance, casting a Light spell in broad daylight would not reduce the ambient light conditions.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

For a few more thoughts on this topic, see this thread

 

[JLXC]

Another joke is that if you are a rogue who casts darkness on yourself and can see (which everyone can now) the target, even if you have blindsight, you cannot sneak attack them. That's right. Shadowy areas prevent sneak attack... so no sneaking around for rogues! Bad rogues trying to be sneaky!

Even in regular shadows not of the spell variety you can only sneak attack if you have Light, Darkvision, or Blindsight.

 

[dbm]

Originally posted by JXLC
That's right. Shadowy areas prevent sneak attack... so no sneaking around for rogues!

Can you give us a page reference for this please?

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

3.5 PHB page 50: "A rogue cannot sneak attack when striking a creature with concealment ...". IIRC, the rule was the same in 3.0.

 

[The Little Raven]

Another joke is that if you are a rogue who casts darkness on yourself and can see (which everyone can now) the target, even if you have blindsight, you cannot sneak attack them. That's right. Shadowy areas prevent sneak attack... so no sneaking around for rogues! Bad rogues trying to be sneaky!

Even in regular shadows not of the spell variety you can only sneak attack if you have Light, Darkvision, or Blindsight.

From the SRD:

"BLINDSIGHT AND BLINDSENSE
Some creatures have blindsight, the extraordinary ability to use a nonvisual sense (or a combination of such senses) to operate effectively without vision. Such sense may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This ability makes invisibility and concealment (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can’t see ethereal creatures). This ability operates out to a range specified in the creature description."

So, a creature with blindsight is not affected by concealment, and can make a sneak attack, even in an area of magical darkness.

I made a feat for normal rogues in my campaign to overcome this, however.

Knife in the Dark [General]
Prerequisite: Blind-Fight, sneak attack +3d6.
Benefit: You are able to make sneak attacks against creatures with concealment.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

I made a feat for normal rogues in my campaign to overcome this, however.

Knife in the Dark [General]
Prerequisite: Blind-Fight, sneak attack +3d6.
Benefit: You are able to make sneak attacks against creatures with concealment.

That's a pretty cool idea. I think I would prefer to tone down the effect and prereqs, but that's just me. I'm thinking something like allowing sneak attacks only for 'standard' concealment (20% miss chance), not total concealment, but having a prereq milder than +3d6 sneak attack, maybe different altogether like a certain number of ranks in Spot, or Wis 13+. I guess I like the idea of a rogue with special training being able to target vital areas under suboptimal visibility, but not when he/she can't even see the target at all.

 

[The Little Raven]

That's a pretty cool idea. I think I would prefer to tone down the effect and prereqs, but that's just me. I'm thinking something like allowing sneak attacks only for 'standard' concealment (20% miss chance), not total concealment, but having a prereq milder than +3d6 sneak attack, maybe different altogether like a certain number of ranks in Spot, or Wis 13+. I guess I like the idea of a rogue with special training being able to target vital areas under suboptimal visibility, but not when he/she can't even see the target at all.

Well, do remember that they still suffer the 50% miss chance (even with the additional reroll offered by Blind-Fight), so there's a chance that the blow won't even land.

I thought about setting the prereqs with Alertness and maybe Wisdom 13+, but elected to go with Blind-Fight (necessary for fighting without eyes) and sneak attack +3d6 (makes the feat available to 6th-level rogues).

I also thought about putting in "Special: This feat has no effect against a creature that has total concealment." but didn't, because I figured having to find the right square, then hoping to make the attack makes things bad enough.