D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Elemental Savant (fire) help

[Udumorn]

I'm playing in a large campaign with mostly beginners, so I decided to play as a Sorcerer 6/Elemental Savant (Fire) for the hell of it. Now that I'm nearing ES 10, my DM and I realized we really should get what happens with the capstone clarified. Complete Arcane (p32) says the PC gains "elemental perfection", which means the player "completely transcends her mortal form to become an elemental creature. Her type changes to elemental. She no longer needs to eat, sleep, or breathe. She gains an elemental creature's immunity to stunning, and she is no longer subject to extra damage from critical hits or flanking. An elemental savant gains the speed and movement modes, natural attacks, special attacks, and special qualities of a Medium elemental of their type as noted in MMI" We have a multitude of questions that we really don't know the answer to, including but not limited to:
-"The merest touch from their fiery bodies is sufficient to set many materials aflame" Would I incinerate anything flammable I touch, period? In extension to this, "Creatures hitting a fire elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the elemental's attack, and also catch on fire..." would this affect anyone who touched me, ever, or only when they are attacking, OR when I choose? Also in extension to THIS, what happens when i grapple something/one?
-"A fire elemental cannot enter water or any other non-flammable liquid. A body of water is an impassible barrier unless the fire elemental can step or jump over it." What happens if I am, say, pushed into the water? Is it the water/air boundary or the earth/water boundary that's impassable (Would I just stay over the water like it's ground?), or if i do come in contact with the water, what would happen?
-What is included under "special qualities" that would apply to me? "voice sounds like the crackle and hiss of a great fire"?, grapple bonus?, immunity to fire?, vulnerability to cold?, feats (dodge, improved initiative, mobility, weapon finesse)?, weight?
-Would I still be able to go unconscious?
-by immune to fire, if included in "special qualities"; is that fire as in fire-energy magic? Or fire as in fire, like burning house fire? Worth noting, it has listed separately in the ES entry "Energy Immunity: from 10th level on, an elemental savant gains immunity to the type of energy associated with her chosen element."
-In extension to the previous question, what would happen if I, say, decided to do a few laps in a lava pool, just because?
Any help is greatly appreciated! Also, if you could include your reasoning for any of your answers it would be great, so I can give my DM a "why" for anything I give him.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

-"The merest touch from their fiery bodies is sufficient to set many materials aflame" Would I incinerate anything flammable I touch, period? In extension to this, "Creatures hitting a fire elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the elemental's attack, and also catch on fire..." would this affect anyone who touched me, ever, or only when they are attacking, OR when I choose? Also in extension to THIS, what happens when i grapple something/one?

this may not be RAW (or maybe and I can't find the reference) but you should be able to suppress supernatural abilities such as this. If it's not RAW, it may be a nifty house rule to implement.

-"A fire elemental cannot enter water or any other non-flammable liquid. A body of water is an impassible barrier unless the fire elemental can step or jump over it." What happens if I am, say, pushed into the water? Is it the water/air boundary or the earth/water boundary that's impassable (Would I just stay over the water like it's ground?), or if i do come in contact with the water, what would happen?

I envision you bouncing upon the surface, kicking up steam and writhing in pain, taking damage. Don't actually know though.

-What is included under "special qualities" that would apply to me? "voice sounds like the crackle and hiss of a great fire"?, grapple bonus?, immunity to fire?, vulnerability to cold?, feats (dodge, improved initiative, mobility, weapon finesse)?, weight?

my understanding is all but the weight. It says you undergo a minor Physical change, I think it's between you and your DM exactly what that is. This may address the above burning touch question as well.

-Would I still be able to go unconscious?

as opposed to dying at 0 HP? Or as per a Sleep spell?

-by immune to fire, if included in "special qualities"; is that fire as in fire-energy magic? Or fire as in fire, like burning house fire? Worth noting, it has listed separately in the ES entry "Energy Immunity: from 10th level on, an elemental savant gains immunity to the type of energy associated with her chosen element."

Immune to fire should mean magical or mundane fires. Supernatural fires like Dragon's breath. Fire spells. The damage from the Elemental Plane of Fire. Etc, etc.

-In extension to the previous question, what would happen if I, say, decided to do a few laps in a lava pool, just because?

Then you'd look super awesome, and be comfy.

 

[PureGoldx58]

Elemental Savant? Finally a question I've been researching for a year! (I am playing one myself at the moment.)

-"The merest touch from their fiery bodies is sufficient to set many materials aflame" Would I incinerate anything flammable I touch, period? In extension to this, "Creatures hitting a fire elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the elemental's attack, and also catch on fire..." would this affect anyone who touched me, ever, or only when they are attacking, OR when I choose? Also in extension to THIS, what happens when i grapple something/one?

Flavor text is not RAW remember that, the special attack you gain is Burn that adds fire damage to your slam and they have to make a reflex or set on fire. In addition if they hit you they need to make a reflex. Also note that the DC of this special attack for YOU as an elemental savant is 20+your Con. (way higher than an elemental's)

My conclusion, it doesn't say you can make a touch attack to set things on fire or mention specifically if you touch a flammable object that you set it on fire, so you don't, but a DM could EASILY house rule that you do.

-"A fire elemental cannot enter water or any other non-flammable liquid. A body of water is an impassible barrier unless the fire elemental can step or jump over it." What happens if I am, say, pushed into the water? Is it the water/air boundary or the earth/water boundary that's impassable (Would I just stay over the water like it's ground?), or if i do come in contact with the water, what would happen?

What normally happens to a fire elemental (I assume) is they become unsummoned, as you are a (Native) Outsider you aren't summoned and this is your home. This is going to be pure house-rule, I would say you are incapable of entering water of your own free will, but if you are pushed you land on top (treating it like a barrier) and probably slide across it, maybe taking damage but I can't imagine a lot of damage.

-What is included under "special qualities" that would apply to me? "voice sounds like the crackle and hiss of a great fire"?, grapple bonus?, immunity to fire?, vulnerability to cold?, feats (dodge, improved initiative, mobility, weapon finesse)?, weight?

"Special Qualities" is actually a specific part of a monster's stats, it isn't a descriptive word it is referring to something specific in a similar way that "ability score" refers to Str, etc.

You gain Darkvision 60ft, Elemental Traits (pg. 308 in MMI under Elemental Type, under "Traits" you get all that), Immunity to Fire, and Vulnerability to Cold. No feats, no weight, no grapple bonus, and the voice thing refers to Ignan the language, which I hope you speak.

-Would I still be able to go unconscious?

You are a (Native) Outsider, yes. Once you are under 0 HP you stabilize or don't as normal. You are immune to non-lethal damage because you can't be crit also, so they can't MAKE you unconscious with a sap. You however, don't sleep, eat, or breathe anymore. Also don't forget you can't be paralyzed.

-by immune to fire, if included in "special qualities"; is that fire as in fire-energy magic? Or fire as in fire, like burning house fire? Worth noting, it has listed separately in the ES entry "Energy Immunity: from 10th level on, an elemental savant gains immunity to the type of energy associated with her chosen element."

It states that because Earth elementals aren't immune to acid. But fire means fire, all means all.

-In extension to the previous question, what would happen if I, say, decided to do a few laps in a lava pool, just because?

You would be the best lava swimmer in your party! That's what would happen. Lava does fire damage so have fun! (I did!)


Also, I say (Native) Outsider because you gain Elemental as your type but still retain a soul, and the only difference between Outsider and Native is a soul. That is more of using rules as a whole not separate, so can be RAI instead of RAW (DM's choice really).

 

[PureGoldx58]

this may not be RAW (or maybe and I can't find the reference) but you should be able to suppress supernatural abilities such as this. If it's not RAW, it may be a nifty house rule to implement.

Burn is an (Ex).

 

[Udumorn]

Once you are under 0 HP you stabilize or don't as normal. You are immune to non-lethal damage because you can't be crit also, so they can't MAKE you unconscious with a sap.

Would you mind explaining that bit? Also, the "Elemental Type" bit, I assume I don't get anything from the "features" section of that, correct?
Thanks both of you for all the help as well, it's greatly appreciated.

 

[PureGoldx58]

You don't die at 0 hp like an elemental does. (This is all up to your DM since you become an elemental) You still die at -10 HP like a character. At -1 you are no longer conscious and the only actions you can take are attempting to stabilize. This is the only way you can become unconscious because the only other common way is to attack you with non-lethal until you pass out, but because you are immune to crits and sneak attack, etc you are immune to non-lethal damage as far as I can tell.

You gain everything under the "Traits" section. However, if you aren't treating yourself as a Native Outsider I would give you everything under features too since it does say your type become Elemental. And you will have a glaring weakness of Dismissal, etc.

 

[Udumorn]

Between the help and realizing I'd misinterpreted a few things, I think I have pretty much everything clarified. My DM decided I can ignite anything flammable as a free touch spell whenever I choose (lol), the water issue doesn't actually apply because I become an Elemental, type Fire, not specifically a Fire Elemental (I just take on speed and movement modes, natural attacks, special attacks, and special qualities of a Medium Fire Elemental, which the water crap wasn't included in), and I'm still confused as to how you (PureGold) are saying I could never take non-lethal, and some book references would be great, because I'd love to be immune to non-lethal but my DM won't take it without proof.

 

[PureGoldx58]

Between the help and realizing I'd misinterpreted a few things, I think I have pretty much everything clarified. My DM decided I can ignite anything flammable as a free touch spell whenever I choose (lol), the water issue doesn't actually apply because I become an Elemental, type Fire, not specifically a Fire Elemental (I just take on speed and movement modes, natural attacks, special attacks, and special qualities of a Medium Fire Elemental, which the water crap wasn't included in), and I'm still confused as to how you (PureGold) are saying I could never take non-lethal, and some book references would be great, because I'd love to be immune to non-lethal but my DM won't take it without proof.

It could just be me taking the suggestion that 99% of things that are immune to crits/stunning/sneak attack (like elementals, but not apparently) are immune to non-lethal damage. I've been attempting to find where I got this idea from.

Until I find proof assume I am wrong.

 

[Udumorn]

If you find it that'd be awesome, i mean, no non-lethal damage on top of everything? Would be sick.
Also I don't suppose any of you care but I ran across the perfect follow-up for after ES 10. It's called Bonded Summoner, mini's handbook pg 16. Assuming your DM isn't a dick, you could compress the class into 5 levels and not lose a CL, since everything you gain except Elemental Companion and Elemental Form (sort-of, this version lets you turn into an Elder (type) Elemental for 10 hours or until you switch back, once per day) is redundant.

 

[frankthedm]

-"A fire elemental cannot enter water or any other non-flammable liquid. A body of water is an impassible barrier unless the fire elemental can step or jump over it." What happens if I am, say, pushed into the water? Is it the water/air boundary or the earth/water boundary that's impassable (Would I just stay over the water like it's ground?), or if i do come in contact with the water, what would happen?

I'd recommend it dealing 10d6 or 20d6 damage per round, similar to Acid or Lava.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...lemental-fails-make-jump-over-body-water.html