D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] How is Shapechange balanced?

[Dwarmaj]

In 3.0, the Shifter gains Ex abilities, feats, racial skills, and physical attributes (str, con, dex) of the creature they change into. Until the class is revised, Wildshape (which Greater Wildshape is an extension of) is based on Polymorph Self.

I don't have the 3.5 PHB yet, but I believe no Ex, Su, or Sp abilities will be gained. Ex attacks (poison, pounce, rend) and attack routines (claw, bite, slam) will be gained. This make 10 levels of Shifter equivalent to an 8th level spell (Persistant Poly Self).

 

[3d6]

Can you still use shapechange to turn into a 200' diameter gold sphere? (In other words, is it still broken beyond all reason?)

 

[Dark Dragon]

Personally, I think you're asking for trouble allowing persistent spell. That is to say, I think there's a reason it didn't make it into 3.5...

J

Nope, not really. BTW, to make a spell persistent, it moves up four levels...

At level 27 (to use my example), an extended Shapechange (a level 10 spell) will last 9 hours. Let the druid cast it three times and you'll have the same effect as if using persistent spell. Use extend spell three times (a level 12 Shapechange) to have it last for 36 hours (did I used the rules correctly? Feel free to check ).
Hmm, persistant spell is not that important...

 

[Plane Sailing]

No stacking of the same metamagic in 3.5e

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In this case, persistant is not that important - but there are several spells with lower durations than 1 hour, and that still can be made "persisting"...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Dark Dragon]

In this case, persistant is not that important - but there are several spells with lower durations than 1 hour, and that still can be made "persisting"...

Mustrum Ridcully

Hm, maybe, but not so many. IIRC, only spells with personal range (like Shapechange) or fixed range (like Detect Magic) can be made persistent.

No stacking of the same metamagic in 3.5e

Oh, well, then go with persistent spell ...

 

[Wrahn]

Just FYI:

A Shifter can still change into things that Polymorph self cannot change into (Constructs, Oozes, Outsiders, etc) and a Shifter can also turn into a gargantuan ball of gold if he is high enough level (has enough hit dice) because of an Animated Object (Construct) can be nearly any inanimate object. This of course is still subject to the DM whim, but considering if you shave pieces off the ball of gold they revert to flesh and the ball will radiate magic, I don’t see anything too terrible with it.

 

[isoChron]

I'm really amused that it's not OK for a druid to gain scent as a wolf but all SU-abilities from elementals ...
Why the heck couldn't they use the Wildshape from the MotW ???
This was perfect and not related to stupid polymorph.
At least Druids use divine magic and not arcane spells to shift between forms.
Another point is what supercool gamebreaking abilities can you gain with shifting into an animal ?????
Blindsight from Direbat ? Wohoo ...
Scent from Wolf ? Wow ...
Always remember your poor AC and the lack of communication with your allies or the animals ...

And now shapechange enables you to become a real dragon, demon, whatever with all the supernatural abilities ? Oh, wait, I shift into a wolf to scent out hidden foes ...... Bah.
It's a spell that can (perhaps) be dispelled with greater dispelling ... just make a dispel check min. DC28 ...

Just for the reason of simplification they bound Wildshape to Polymorph... and I guess this is not the last version of polymorph we have seen ... (I remember at least 3 versions of polymorph (and ball lightning) in 3.0).
Why is a wizard better at shapeshifting than a druid ? Even so the druid is specialized on animals it is not a gain just a loss in respect to the wizard ...

I'm not saying 3.5 is crap but the more I read the more I think they messed up an equal amount of what they fixed ....

Have a nice day,

BYE

 

[Argent Silvermage]

I think youir all missing the point. It's a 9th level spell! Of course it powerful. There is nothing unballanced about it now. In 3E I was considering turning into a paragon wyrm gold dragon. Thank Wizardru for stopping me and my mad quest for power.

 

[smetzger]

I'm playing a Bbn 1 / Drd 7 / Shifter 6 and it makes fun despite the two restrictions. Walking around as a troll is ok, but only outside of civilized lands

Stirge is pretty powerful too. Especially if you can Vomit up the blood and suck some more.