D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] How is Shapechange balanced?

[Dwarmaj]

Shapechange was a very powerful spell in 3.0 and was borderline too powerful. Now that the caster gains Su abilities, it's even more powerful than before. Sure they're now limited to 2xcaster level in HD of creature they can copy, but still that's an aweful lot of power.

I would have liked to see the duration cut down to 1 min/level. At 10 min/level, it'll last several encounters.

Also, anyone know what they have planned for the Shifter PrC? Since Polymorph and Wildshape have been weakened, there is little reason to take the Shifter class when you could just continue on as a Wiz or Druid and get Shapechange. In 3.0 the Shifter class was always overshadowd by the Shapechange spell, now the class (all ten levels worth) basicly provides persistant PolySelf (basicly an 8th level affect). Not a very good trade off.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Well....what level is Shapechange in the Revised PHB?

 

[Malachi of Kossuth]

Here is a link on Wizard's boards about this:

DISCUSSION HERE

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, it seems nicely balanced as a 9th level wizard spell, first achievable at 17th level (18th for Sorcerer).

WotC have not said anything about the Shifter class, but considering how vastly powerful it seemed whenever I've come across it being used... good riddance I'd say. Considering that it allowed evershifting gargantuan wildshape into everything by 15th level...

 

[Dwarmaj]

Considering that it allowed evershifting gargantuan wildshape into everything by 15th level...

If you can find something that's Gargantuan size with 15 or less HD, let me know. The HD restriction makes most creatures above Huge unattainable so Gargantuan size is a pretty useless ability.

 

[Dark Dragon]

If you can find something that's Gargantuan size with 15 or less HD, let me know. The HD restriction makes most creatures above Huge unattainable so Gargantuan size is a pretty useless ability.

I agree. But some people are using THE TRICK because the wording of Greater Wildshape is not clear when GWS is based on Wild Shape.

IMC, we've house ruled the shifter: No forms with more HD than the shifter PC has. No feats are gained. Extraordinary abilities, senses, natural armor, racial boni and attack routine are gained. And this ruling won't change when 3.5 is out.
I'm playing a Bbn 1 / Drd 7 / Shifter 6 and it makes fun despite the two restrictions. Walking around as a troll is ok, but only outside of civilized lands

About Shapechange: Perhaps it is overpowered because of access to Su powers:
In a second group, I'm playing a druid (level 16). He's quite impressed by dragons and wants to take a dragon form sometimes in the future.

With the ELH rules he needed four epic feats (beast shape, dragon shape, gargantuan shape, colossal shape), WIS 30 and Knowledge (Nature) 30 to reach his goal at level 27...

With the 3.5 rules, he needs two normal feats (extend spell, persistant spell) and again four epic feats (4x improved spell capacity) to pass the goal at level 27! He can morph in almost everything he has encountered so far for 24 hours a day and make full use of all Su abilities. This includes DR, breath weapon, regeneration,... IIRC, Shapechange has a cap at 50 HD. But c'mon, that's no real drawback.

 

[drnuncheon]

With the 3.5 rules, he needs two normal feats (extend spell, persistant spell) and again four epic feats (4x improved spell capacity) to pass the goal at level 27!

Personally, I think you're asking for trouble allowing persistent spell. That is to say, I think there's a reason it didn't make it into 3.5...

J

 

[Dwarmaj]

Has WotC even commented on when the class book PrCs or feats will be revised?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Personally, I think you're asking for trouble allowing persistent spell. That is to say, I think there's a reason it didn't make it into 3.5...

J

I think persistent is unbalanced a bit or at least I hate how it works, but not making it into 3.5 isn't much of an indicaiton of anything sicne they put so little work into metamagic in the revision.

 

[Grog]

I can't remember; does the Shifter get the supernatural abilites of the creature he shifts into? How about the spell-like abilities?