D&D 3.x 3.5 is the REAL reason everyone is angry

[Gargauth]

Umbran already said it, but I think it just needs to be said again to anybody who is panicking because they think that all their 3.5 books are suddenly going to be useless next year:

You can still play 3.5 after 4e comes out. Nobody will be stopping you. You will still be able to keep using the thousands of dollars worth of gaming books you've built up over the last few years. I mean, hell, it's not the Gaming Police are going to kick down your door and arrest you if you're not playing the current edition.

The only way the game will change for you after 4e comes out is that 3.5e books will no longer be published.

This isn't my point at all. I am fully aware of this. I am pointing out that there is a problem when 4th edition is (according to the developers) so different from 3.5 that conversion will not be worth the effort. These are their words, not mine. Since, by their own wording, this is still Dungeons and Dragons and only (numerically) half an edition from what I am playing now, I would expect some ability to translate between the two, or at least from 3.5 up to 4. The suggested inability to do this is what I am referring to.

 

[Counterspin]

I'm just surprised that people pay attention to what Wizards' PR guys say. I wasn't mad about 3.5 because it was an improvement I was willing to shell out for. I'm not mad about 4e for the same reasons. I buy the books for the product, not the PR. I don't care if the PR whips his todger out at every press conference and spends most of his interviews talking about pink flying walruses. If the books are good, I'll buy 'em.

And about compatibility between systems. Why would you expect that? I'd ask if anyone at Wizards said that 4e would be compatible, but as noted above, I wouldn't have trusted them even if they'd promised it.

I would like to note I don't hold any ill-will towards wizards. The tone of this post is supposed to be conversational.

 

[Gargauth]

I don't care if the PR whips his todger out at every press conference and spends most of his interviews talking about pink flying walruses.

These will be easier to create in the new, streamlined edition... can't wait to see them on the digital tabletop!

 

[Counterspin]

I once had a player ask me what a dire walrus was. The answer, of course, is a dire bear with a swim speed.

 

[The Souljourner]

To everyone complaining about the 4e announcement:

It's not about you.

If you don't want/can't afford to buy 4e books.... for god's sake, don't buy them. But don't act like WoTC has some moral obligation to ask your personal opinion about their business strategy.

No one's putting a gun to your head. No one forced you to buy 3.5e. Hell, the very reason you don't like it is the reason you didn't need to buy it - it was almost 100% backwards compatible with 3.0.

And no, 4e won't be backwards compatible. As far as I'm concerned that's a great thing. Backwards compatibility is why Windows STILL sucks... because customers insist on using their old, buggy, awful programs on the newest systems. Backwards compatibility would have us with Elf as class and secondary skills and weapon speeds. No thank you.

5 years is just about the perfect amount of time between versions in my opinion. I've almost burnt out on 3.5... only the Book of Nine Swords rekindled my desire for 3.5.... and that was test of 4e ideas. I say, bring on 4e, and I'll be looking forward to 4.5 3-5 years after that.

-Nate

 

[Odhanan]

To everyone complaining about the 4e announcement:

It's not about you.

If you don't want/can't afford to buy 4e books.... for god's sake, don't buy them. But don't act like WoTC has some moral obligation to ask your personal opinion about their business strategy.

No one's putting a gun to your head.
-Nate

Dude, that would be all fine if that was about being rational, but it's not.

It's about people who like the game so much that they care about what it is and becomes, and want to keep up with it while having some difficulties rationalizing the expense, or energy, necessary for so doing. It hurts when you feel left behind, and some people feel that way. Ergo, it's not about reason, it's about feelings. Respect that, please, mate.

Moreover, any company in its right mind should ask for and welcome customer feedback. WotC, like any responsible company, seems to do that to some extent. That's just good business sense.

It's fine if you don't have that problem, but don't belittle people who're trying to express their own love for the game.

 

[Gargauth]

And no, 4e won't be backwards compatible. As far as I'm concerned that's a great thing. Backwards compatibility is why Windows STILL sucks...

Again... this is the opposite of my complaint. Bill Slavisek is essentially saying the game won't be FORWARD compatible... I don't want to get new 4E stuff and convert it back to 3.5, I want to take the Expedition to Greyhawk book I bought last week and be able to convert it to 4E when it is released. If you don't think that is reasonable, then we aren't going to agree, simple as that.

 

[billd91]

Again... this is the opposite of my complaint. Bill Slavisek is essentially saying the game won't be FORWARD compatible... I don't want to get new 4E stuff and convert it back to 3.5, I want to take the Expedition to Greyhawk book I bought last week and be able to convert it to 4E when it is released. If you don't think that is reasonable, then we aren't going to agree, simple as that.

I can't really see why you wouldn't be able to convert anything from any edition into any other edition, even if the mechanics are completely different. People were converting adventures from Villains and Vigilantes to Champions and vice versa and the systems were completely incompatible.

Or are adventures just the number crunching and not the plots, NPC characterizations, and ideas?

That's a bit of a rhetorical question but I submit that conversion is always possible. The question is how time-consuming the conversion is, not whether it can be done.

 

[Brian Compton]

Again... this is the opposite of my complaint. Bill Slavisek is essentially saying the game won't be FORWARD compatible... I don't want to get new 4E stuff and convert it back to 3.5, I want to take the Expedition to Greyhawk book I bought last week and be able to convert it to 4E when it is released. If you don't think that is reasonable, then we aren't going to agree, simple as that.

And there's the rub, especially with WotC trotting out a large number of adventures (something else they said they wouldn't be doing because they are loss-leaders, and instead relying on Dungeon for releasing adventure material). The new mechanics-type things will likely work on some level, e.g. maneuvers from Book of Nine Swords, but adventures like the FR trilogy and all the campaign-world tie-ins like Ravenloft and Greyhawk will need massive overhauls or be rendered useless under the new regime.

And, let's face it, how many people are still using 2E out there today? I know there are some, but as a percentage of all D&D players it is likely small (similarly for earlier editions). Most players and DM's will go over to 4E because that's what's being supported by the mother company and her independent subsidiaries. The problem now is how much of the new 3.5E stuff will sell when everyone knows the end date for the line. Similarly, how will this affect third-party companies like Goodman (whose bread-and-butter has been adventures) who have 3.5 compatible products coming out? WotC would be well-advised to work with them on this, but isn't legally or even ethically obligated to do so. I wonder how much 2E material WotC sold once they started hyping 3E. Hopefully they've looked at their history and anticipated what would happen, but no guarantees.

 

[Gargauth]

I can't really see why you wouldn't be able to convert anything from any edition into any other edition, even if the mechanics are completely different. People were converting adventures from Villains and Vigilantes to Champions and vice versa and the systems were completely incompatible.

Or are adventures just the number crunching and not the plots, NPC characterizations, and ideas?

That's a bit of a rhetorical question but I submit that conversion is always possible. The question is how time-consuming the conversion is, not whether it can be done.

I would tend to agree with you and I hope you are right. Certainly much of the appeal to modules is the storyline (at least the good ones) but if a complete redesign of the stats is in order, here's hoping that the DM work is as easy as they are suggesting it will be.