Sonofapreacherman said:
A feat that only one character can take. A character with the most combat feats available at their disposal. As for the other 10 character classes... well, that kind of marginalizes your point here into insignificance.
And because
YOU say it, it must be true. Not.
It's not marginalized, and it's not insiginificant.
Does the fact that one class (ranger) gets the TWF feats for free marginalize your "economy of feats" arguement?
Whether you caught it or not, this debate has more to do with economy of feats than you realize.
Only in your mind apparently.
Which requires even more feats.
You still haven't proven that the best maximized damage for the most number of characters (after taking a single feat) is one medium weapon and one small weapon, which equates to +8 worth of damage bonuses from Two-Weapon Fighting ... and what's more, you won't. Feel free to try though.
Um, we never wanted to prove that it was one medium weapon and one small weapon, that's your stance. Can't you even keep your own arguement straight?
Why do I need to prove it for the most number of characters anyway? You never said anything about that in the beginning.
Trying to change the parameters of the arguement after you have been proven wrong is dirty pool, and doesn't really work in this case.
Perhaps not in my favor... but in the favor of logic. I'll settle with logic.
Then why are you still arguing about it? Logic says your wrong.
One weapon = one bonus. You can't double dip. Use it in both hands if you like, but it is still one bonus for one weapon. 1:1.
Two weapons, one feat. Just like TWF.
We are discussing two-weapon fighting are we not?
You are talking about (removing) penalties when using two weapons, and we are talking about (removing) penalties when two weapons.
Not that hard a concept, I would think.
TWF reduces the penalties for using two weapons (-2 for one hand, -6 for the other).
When using two weapons you aren't proficient in, you get a total of -8 in penalties (-4 for each hand). Proficiency reduces those penalties for each hand. Viola! A total of 8 point reduction in penalties, just like TWF in the 3.5.
This ratio thing really stumps you guys doesn't it?
Being smug when you are wrong just makes you look like an ass.
You are the one having problems with the ratio thing.
One proficiency: 2 weapons
1:2
See above. The whole 1 feat economy was the underlying point of this thread. How much should 1 feat be allowed to do. Get it now?
Well, that is where this all began, soooooo...
Let's see, if it's a metamagic feat it can give up to +5d6 or more damage (empower), or a whole extra spell (up to +15d6 with quickened cone of cold).
If it's a weapon proficiency feat is can reduce your penalties by 4 when using one weapon, or 8 when using two weapons (one in each hand).
It can prevent an AoO, and grant a +4 bonus (Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, etc.)
Preventing an AoO seems to be on par with a +4 bonus, so yeah, I think the new TWF feat is on par with the other 3.5 combat feats.