[3.5 Psionics] How would you fix psionics?

[Simplicity]

Okay the thread on Dark Sun and a possible revision of psionics has got me thinking... There are a lot of things about the new psionics system that I don't like.

1) Psionic combat is nearly useless in practice. Why?
a) It's difficult for your party to contribute to the damage you
do. So, it's often a better plan to just do normal damage
with a weapon than to use psionic combat.
b) Different attack modes do different ability damage, so
there's virtually no point in using any more than one
attack mode against an opponent. You want to lower
one ability score to 0, not cause multiple ability penalties.
c) Psionic powers are often far more destructive than the
psionic attacks themselves. Why lower someone's
Wisdom by 3 points when you can disentigrate them or
blast them?
d) Requires either memorization of a table, or it requires
looking up that table every time there's a psionic combat.
This is pretty annoying, and counter to many of the
design principles in 3e.

2) Psionic powers are underpowered. Why?
a) There is a lack of "signature" powers for psionicists. Mages
have magic missile and fireball, spells which are
deliberately overpowered yet kept because they give the
class flavor and strength. Psionicists have nothing like
this.
b) A great deal of psionicist powers have direct correlations to
magic spells. Animal Affinity, Schism, and Ectoplasmic Wall
are some good examples of this. This causes a serious
lack of flavor in the psionicist class.
c) Psionicist powers do not scale with their level. This leaves a
majority of their lower level powers unutilized when they
hit higher levels.

So, ENWorld, how should WotC fix these problems if they revise psionics? What other problems do you think they should fix? (Or if you think what I said is not a problem with psionics, tell me I'm full of crap.)

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I agree with your points, but have little idea how to fix them. I would like a psionic combat system that works- perhaps the defenses just give Psi-resistance for a stat for a duration, and the attacks just the stat. *shrug*

Since I have a month before my next campeign starts- I am considering tinkering with the Spycraft psi rules for d&d. They have a skill/feat system that looks pretty solid, but I have not seen it in play.

SD

 

[shadowlight]

I'm a big fan of psionics, but I think the biggest problem with current 3e psionics is that you have to "cast" psionics like spells -- in other words, it feels just like D&D magic with a different name.

The one exception to this is the set of psionic feats. I think this is the strongest part of the 3e psionics rules -- psychic powers that can be used whenever you need them.

With that viewpoint, I think a system like Sleeping Emperium's skills & feats psionics mixed with power points (and perhaps some spell-like psioncs) would be more what I'm looking for...

 

[Desdichado]

I'm also looking for psionics to have a significantly different feel than magic: something like the Force powers, or Ken Hood's "skills and feats" psionics are right up my alley.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You forgot Multiple Ability Dependency.

 

[Apok]

Here's my list of things that I think need to be tweaked.


1) Implement the Known Powers/Power Point table from ITCK

2) Remove the multiple stat dependencies. Use ITCK's Primary discipline + two secondary disciplines working off of a single stat

3) Get rid of the stupid visualizations

4) Get rid of or at least rework Psionic Combat

5) Implement some system of power-scaling ala Wheel of Time's channeling. Instead of having 6 versions of a power, have one with scaling effects that cost more and/or less PP's. Monte Cook is doing a similiar thing with magic in his Arcana Unearthed book.

A skill + feat base Psi system would be really cool, but it would be a dramatic alteration of how Psionicis currently work. Doing this would basically eliminate any form of backwards compatability with previous psionic suppliments.

 

[PeterDonis]

My 2cp:

1) I prefer the current powers/power points based system to a skill/feat based system; but I'd like to see more powers that weren't carbon copies of spells and fewer that were (and conversely: although I like ITCK in general, as you'll see below, I thought its conversion of all the spells in the core rules to psionic powers was absolutely the worst idea I've ever heard of);

2) I like the idea of the psionic classes needing more than one ability score to be good (kind of like the monk--my psionic characters have always been the sort that prefer being multi-talented and multi-faceted, viewing plain wizards and fighters as basically being one-trick ponies)--but needing all six to be good is a bit much. I think ITCK strikes the right balance here with secondary disciplines (those rules are already house rules IMC);

3) I also like the power scaling rules from ITCK--but if I used them for psionics, I wouldn't want to introduce something similar for magic (like Monte's apparently doing)--power scaling could be one of the flavor aspects that makes psionics different (i.e., psionics can be "powered up" or "powered down" by spending more or less points, whereas magic spells have to be defined exactly in advance and cast just one way);

4) And OBTW, Psionics Are Different IMC, and I think that should be the core rule;

5) I like psionic combat, but I've always viewed it as being strictly for use against other psionics--for when you're by yourself and you meet an enemy psionic one on one, or when you're the lone psionic in a party and you're trying to take out the lone psionic in the other party. I've never thought of it as being intended for general use in combat; that's what the powers are for. For the psionic vs. psionic scenario I think the current system is OK (though it would be nice to find an easier mechanic than that darned table).

Peter Donis

 

[Dark Psion]

Right now the biggest problem with psionics is that everything needed is scattered all over the place. We need to pull everything together; ITCKy, Dragon magazine articles, The Mind's Eye, The Psychic Rogue (in Path of Shadow) and the upcoming Q-Psion D NDA ).

I think Psi-combat can be salvaged (see above ), but I agree we need more unique powers, feats and creatures.

WoC also needs to Oficially make psionics OGL!
The WoC OGL website still doesn't have psionics listed and the OGL foundation site's psionics list is incomplete.

If they do give psionics to a 3rd party, they need to make it an Official setting!
How much of the Manual of the PLanes would work with psionics? Many of those feats in the Splatbooks would work too, but none of this is OGL, so no dreaming seers or planewalking nomads.

 

[Melriken]

I would like to see a skills and feat system. One with about 10-15 skills that as you put more ranks into them (okay as you get higher results) start to get better and better. Some of the potential effects could be limited by ranks and not just atual skill check, but these should be feats that add to a skill and just have the ranks as a pre-req. and keep the psi points.

IE.

Ecto-Plasmic Armor (Wis, trained only, exclusive)
You can wrap yourself in psionic energys, providing yourself with increadibly strong defences.
Cost: 3 Psi Points
Durration: a number of minutes equal to the check result
Check: When you use this skill (standard action) Consult the following table, you may take a result lower then your actual result if you wish. Armor bonuses provided by this skill are not bypassed by incoporial touch attacks. Damage reduction provided by this skill can not exceed 10/+3, and Damage reduction bypassed values round down. Armor bonuses may not exceed +12, and this effect does not stack with shields.

Check   |  Effect
--------+---------
   < 5  | Power Failes
 6 - 10 | Armor bonus +4
11 - 20 | Armor Bonus +6
18 - 25 | Damage Reduction 2/silver
21 - 30 | Armor Bonus +8
26 - 40 | Damage Reduction 4/+1
  +10   | Armor Bonus prior +1
  +15   | Damage Reduction prior +2/+.5

Feat:
Ecto-plasmic skin.
Requirement: Ecto-Plasmic Armor 11 ranks
benifit: make Ecto-Plasmic Armor checks, the cost increases to 5 Psi Points. You may take the armor bonus as a natural armor bonus of one half the size, this bonus may not exceed +6. Your Damage reduction may go up to 20/+5.

Obviously these arnt very thought out, but they do show the kind of system I would like to see... but then I am strange...

 

[Simplicity]

Check   |  Effect
--------+---------
   < 5  | Power Failes
 6 - 10 | Armor bonus +4
11 - 20 | Armor Bonus +6
18 - 25 | Damage Reduction 2/silver
21 - 30 | Armor Bonus +8
26 - 40 | Damage Reduction 4/+1
  +10   | Armor Bonus prior +1
  +15   | Damage Reduction prior +2/+.5

The only problem I would have with this sort of system is that it seems that
a) the range of power strength is pretty wild... Though I'm sure this could be altered by altering the table, but the difference between rolling a 1 and a 20 would be AC +4 vs. AC +8 & DR 4/+1 (if I'm reading the table right)... which seems a vast difference for the same spell. Just an example, though I realize.

b) It makes it hard to KNOW your abilities. A mage who casts MM doesn't need to look up the spell everytime he does it. He knows the spell description pretty well off the top of his head. If every spell had a table to go along with it.... Wouldn't that make manifesting powers more like the horror that is psionic combat? Slow... Tedious... Annoying to play?

c) It's hard to do for some things. In the above power example, what's to stop someone from sitting around for five rounds and manifesting the power over and over to get the best result (other than PsP drain).