D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Rogue's Sneak Attack

[Kae'Yoss]

Tickle me stupid (which really isn't too hard) but I could swear I saw that same thing in a Dragon mag or some such after 3e came out ... I was soooo happy to put that rule into effect cause the rogue in my campaign was reeking HAVOK ... wanted to kill him soooooo bad

Then you're doing something wrong. A rogue isn't supposed to sneak attack all the time, without being attacked back. While giving every enemy heavy fortification or only using COUPE monsters is bad form, you can do this sometimes, and the rogue is also supposed to be attacked - especially if he's dealing more damage than that big brute with the greatsword. The rogue can deal lots of damage in a glorious moment - but then he has to flee get away from that enemy as fast as possible.

Side note - you might have been mixing the rule that sneak attack does require some precision and as such it does not work more then once on special multiple attacks within one attack such a shurikens, minor orb spells or many-shot.

No shurikens, not any more. They're treated as ammunition now (drawn as a free action, only one per attack, pricing in stacks of 50, and they get lost and break like arrows) Plus, you can apply your Str bonus AFAIK.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: that's the real problem...

How much does an "always on" true seeing item cost?

91,600gp. Helm of Vision, DotF.

-Hyp.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

man I was just going to tie a gem of true seeing in to fit under my goggles of darkvision.

 

[drnuncheon]

Edit: What page is that?

It's in the Rogue class description, at the end of the section on sneak attack.

J

 

[Kae'Yoss]

man I was just going to tie a gem of true seeing in to fit under my goggles of darkvision.

Remember that the gem doesn't work all day any more. (Probably joined a labour party).

And if you have true sight, you don't need darkvision.

 

[Drasmir]

How much does an "always on" true seeing item cost?

Don't bother. If your trying to get past blur and displacement just get the "Blindfold of Blindsight" or whatever it's called from Savage Species (***EDIT*** I think it might be Arms and Equipment). Those two spells are illusions which won't affect blindsight. Plus you get protection from gaze attacks (albeit you can only see 60ft away). My DM let my Rogue have this and he has regreted it ever since I believe it only costs 9,000 too.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

"A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach."

Which is now kind of ironic in 3.5.

Hide now requires either cover or concealment to work. So the rogue runs off to the shadowy area cast by the torch, hides, and sneaks up on his opponent. But unless the opponent is standing in the area of the torchlight, the rogue can't sneak attack him, 'cause the opponent has concealment.

Hmm. Actually feels more realistic, now that I think about it. The rogue stays in the shadows and sneak attacks creatures in the lighted area, then fades back into the shadows to hide again ...

 

[Fedifensor]

Re: sneak attacks pretty weak

Why are sneak attack dice so lame?
1) You gotta hit to use them

Weapon Finesse + Dex boosting items/spells.

2) Defender must be in a special condition (flanked, lost dex., etc.)

Easiest solution - team up with a second rogue. You could also make friends with a spellcaster with Invisibility, Greater.

3) Class abilities can nullify it (barbarian, etc.)

If the attackers are pure rogues, an equal-level defender must be a single-classed barbarian or rogue, or with minimal multiclassing at best (less than 4 levels worth).

4) Any concealment nullifies it (blur spell=immunity from sneak attacks)

A valid point. The rogue has some options, though...multiclass to sorcerer or wizard for True Strike, or have your party spellcaster cast Dispel Magic.

5) Armor of fort nullifies it.

Partially nullifies it. Anything more than a 25% chance of nullification is going to give the opponent a significant AC reduction.

6) Vast numbers of monsters are immune to it (undead, constructs, monsters too tall to sneak attack)

Another valid point. Then again, clerics are most effective against undead, and rangers are most effective against their favored enemy. Rogues have a much wider range of effectiveness.

When it does come into play...and it comes into play quite a lot, it can be devastating. The 9th level rogue in my party can attack twice in one round for 6d6+3 damage per hit when flanking with a melee weapon, outdamaging the fighters by a significant margin. His tumble is so high that getting the flank is trivial, and Weapon Finesse plus a 20 Dex plus 2 for flank means he hits almost as much as the pure fighters. If he wins initiative (Imp. Init and 20 Dex means a +9 init bonus)and has his bow out, he gets three shots for 1d8+5d6+1 (he has Rapid Shot). That's enough to take out the main villain in the first round if he gets lucky (3d8+15d6+3), and I'm not counting the potential surprise round.

To top it all off, the party's sorceress is about to get another 4th level spell pick, and I'm betting she takes Invisibility, Greater (formerly Improved Invisibility). This will leave me in the position of either letting the rogue walk all over main bad guys in many combats, or having to specifically design my bad guys to negate his main class ability.

If they had limited Sneak Attack to once a round, it would have unfairly diminished the rogue. But I think it would be a reasonable trade off if the rogue gained Hide In Plain Sight as a class ability...

 

[Zerth]

Re: too tall to sneak attack

There was an obscure sage ruling I thought a while back, that made it into the errata...I haven not checked for sure though...

It was to the effect that a halfling rogue could NOT sneak attack a giant because it could not "reach vital areas," etc.

Something like anything bigger than 2 sizes increase you can't sneak attack or something. I'd better go back and check.

By this ruling you shouldn't be able to get regular critical hits easily on big creatures either. By the rules critical hits must target vital organs.