3.5 Scoops Discussion

[Technik4]

Ambivalent

Still in the positive camp here. I dont know how anyone can complain about sorcerors, now they can swap spells (eventually), and they finally get their own cha skill. Opening up their skill list even more would have meant that you see less rog/sor, and more straight sor, which may not necessarily be a problem.

I think a huge issue is that everyone has experience from their games, their players, their DMs. And yeah, we all read these boards, but wizards listens (in more than a couple ways) to everyone who bought a phb and bothered to provide feedback for the product.

So maybe Diviners who are mostly evokers werent a problem in YOUR campaign. Or Necromancers who just drop divination. If your necromancer doesn't want to cast Identify - Don't learn it. State that it is opposed, use some roleplaying excuse - I cast it one time and it backfired...after 8 hours!. I think at high level divinations are really the most important spells for the whole party, not to mention Diviners are given a boon in that scry is no longer a skill that must be built up. How many scry-teleport threads have you read?

I think we haven't seen the totality of the school specialization rules yet. Personally I think wizards should have access to a feat which UN-prohibits a school they neglected due to specialization. For 2 feats (1 school each), you get all your schools back, but for the levels you were banned you don't have early level spells (which you must go back and get) and generalists will still have more variety (with slightly less spell slots).

Technik

 

[Seule]

I've never seen a wizard character built at 5th level or above that was a specialist. Never.

I play an Evoker who was built at 7th level, to replace a dead character, who has given up Enchantment and Illusion. I picked those two for flavour purposes, neither really has the blast spells that the concept of the character is built on.

Personally, as the players of said character at 21st level now, I like the changes. They are pretty minor, and will only work well if the schools are more balanced, but they've needed to balance them for two editions now.

Note: The Universal school still exists. It sounded like some people didn't realize that. It might be going away though, with Divination becoming unable to be barred.

--Seule

 

[MThibault]

The thing I like about the Sorcerer's Spell Swapping (assuming that it works the way I think it does) is that there will be a real cost to entering prestige classes now. Most, but not nearly all, sorcerers in my games never bothered with a familiar anyways (sometimes they are more trouble than they're worth) and without bonus feats taking a prestige class with +1 caster level ended up just being free power at no cost.

At least with spell swapping "every two levels" (not whenever you gain a new level of spells) single classed sorcerers will have more opportunities to swap out spells than those who have taken a prestige class.

Cheers

 

[Nightfall]

Personally, I think invisibility is a little more pressing of a spell.

But perhaps that's from a "DM with players that kill any opponent that moves" perspective.

Yeah that might do it Psion. But regardless I stand by my original conviction that even with two barred schools, divination SHOULD be an option if you're not a Diviner. (Though that would be rather humourous) Plus the fact if they are changing detect magic to divination, the design team seriously needs to rethink that move.

 

[Kershek]

So it looks like people are eager to adopt changes that help their characters and are just going to ignore changes that hurt their characters. Sure, take all the good without the bad. That'll make a balanced game.

 

[Psion]

So it looks like people are eager to adopt changes that help their characters and are just going to ignore changes that hurt their characters. Sure, take all the good without the bad. That'll make a balanced game.

Y'know, I'm not hearing a whole lot of people complaining about the haste or harm changes. I don't think you have a point here.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

So it looks like people are eager to adopt changes that help their characters and are just going to ignore changes that hurt their characters. Sure, take all the good without the bad. That'll make a balanced game.

yeah that's the way to win discussions, insults.

And now that I know this let me finalize my win by insulting.....

 

[Kershek]

Y'know, I'm not hearing a whole lot of people complaining about the haste or harm changes. I don't think you have a point here.

That's because it's been beaten to death and people are talking about not adopting all new nerfs instead of ones we already know about.

 

[Nightfall]

Agreed Psion, nor do I hear people griping about the following monster changes:

Skill points equal, animals getting feats. (Hey just because you HAVE an animal companion doesn't mean it will work for you.) Beast and shapechanger becoming subtypes, damage reduction altered so now it requires more than just a standard + whatever type. Pit Fiend being revamped.

Seems to me all I'm griping about is changes that make SENSE. This is not one of them.

 

[Kershek]

yeah that's the way to win discussions, insults.

And now that I know this let me finalize my win by insulting.....

What, never saw a cynical gamer before?

It's the same kind of discussion I'm seeing in my own gaming group. "Hey, this new power attack is great! I love 3.5e!" "Oh, wait, they're nerfing disintegrate - that's stupid, so let's ignore it!"

I don't quite understand the need to start house ruling before you even start playing the game. See if everything fits together before pulling it apart...