[3.5] Significant Improvements?

[Joshua Randall]

More significant improvements in 3.5:

Knowledge skills now let PCs have an in-game way to learn about monster strengths and weaknesses.

Intimidate is now on the fighter skill list... and there are rules for using it in combat.

Most of the the pointless skills have been eliminated or consolidated (with the notable exception of Use Rope... why?!).

All in all, I'm really pleased with the new 3.5 skill rules.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Not in the least. If you look at the fiction that most of us gravitate towards down through the years...the higher level spell casters are like that.

Raistlin
Elminster
Pug
Gandalf
Khelben
Rand Al`Thor

How many fantasy novels have high level spell casters who are no more special then the sword wielders and shield bearers around them?

These and other novels like them are where I've gotten at least some of the inspiration for most of the campaigns and most of the characters I've played.

I mean, come on...there is NO DOUBT that Gandalf is the most powerful member of the Fellowship of the Ring, but does Aragorn ever take a back seat to him? Or Legolas?

*sighs*

Cedric

In D&D terms, I would consider the 4 hobbits as the PCs, with the rest of the Fellowship as NPCs. Gandalf is "off screen" enough to

In the Wheel of Time, Rand may be the most powerful, but the others that would be considered PCs have their own special powers that are emerging (Perrin the wolf-boy, Nynaeve & Eqwene as a powerful Aes Sedai, Mat having general's past directing his actions)

And, you are also talking novels as well. One person playing immortal epic level Gandalf vs one person playing a first level hobbit doesn't work as well at the table, I'm guessing. Imagine if you're the players all starting out at first level, and the DM has 30th level wizard Gandalf, 20th level ranger Aragon, and 10th level fighters in Legolas & Gimli around as NPCs and those 4 do all the combat, handle all the negotiations, make most of the decisions, etc. It wouldn't be a lot of fun.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Not in the least. If you look at the fiction that most of us gravitate towards down through the years...the higher level spell casters are like that.

Raistlin
Elminster
Pug
Gandalf
Khelben
Rand Al`Thor

How many fantasy novels have high level spell casters who are no more special then the sword wielders and shield bearers around them?

These and other novels like them are where I've gotten at least some of the inspiration for most of the campaigns and most of the characters I've played.

I mean, come on...there is NO DOUBT that Gandalf is the most powerful member of the Fellowship of the Ring, but does Aragorn ever take a back seat to him? Or Legolas?

*sighs*

Cedric

In D&D terms, I would consider the 4 hobbits as the PCs, with the rest of the Fellowship as NPCs. Gandalf is "off screen" enough to

In the Wheel of Time, Rand may be the most powerful, but the others that would be considered PCs have their own special powers that are emerging (Perrin the wolf-boy, Nynaeve & Eqwene as a powerful Aes Sedai, Mat having general's past directing his actions)

And, you are also talking novels as well. One person playing immortal epic level Gandalf vs one person playing a first level hobbit doesn't work as well at the table, I'm guessing, as it does in a book. Imagine if you're the players all starting out at first level, and the DM has 30th level wizard Gandalf, 20th level ranger Aragon, and 10th level fighters in Legolas & Gimli around as NPCs and those 4 do all the combat, handle all the negotiations, make most of the decisions, etc. It wouldn't be a lot of fun.

In the book, the one reader puts himself in the place of Rand or Pug or Richard Cypher (the naive innocent who is really some super powerful wizard). At the table, you have multiple people who want to be Captain Kirk or Robin Hood.

 

[Lamoni]

Not in the least. If you look at the fiction that most of us gravitate towards down through the years...the higher level spell casters are like that.

Raistlin
Elminster
Pug
Gandalf
Khelben
Rand Al`Thor

How many fantasy novels have high level spell casters who are no more special then the sword wielders and shield bearers around them?

Are you saying that the spell caster is that much more powerful while being the same level as the sword wielders and shield bearers around them? Most people would assume that they are much more powerful because they are at a much higher level. Why wouldn't Gandalf be 10-20 levels higher than all the rest since he has been around for so long. Legolas will also be around for a long time, but we are unsure how old he is at the time of the adventure.

If you want spellcasters to be much more powerful than the rest, then that works as long as you have a wizard in your party. But what happens when you have a CR15 monster (that is designed to be an appropriate challenge for a party of fighter, wizard, rogue, and cleric) and the party doesn't have a spellcaster? If spellcasters are so much more powerful and the party was without one, the CR should jump from 15 to 18. Or if you were in a party with 2 wizards... the CR should drop to 13.

Having spellcasters that are unbalanced may work in your campaign, but when they are unbalanced, they have problems in the majority of others. The problem with challenge rating was just one example.

 

[NewJeffCT]

sorry about the double post. I got an error message the first time, so I had assumed it had not made it.

 

[Vanye]

Uller the rule for Sorcerors to change the spells they know is:

1 spell can be changed everytime they get a level. The spell to be changed is one 2 lvls below the maximum spell lvl.

Actually, no, The rule is that a spell can be changed every time they get a new spell level. Basically, at 4th level, then every even numbered level afterwords.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, there's your problem.

You're coming from a context where mages were completely unbalanced.

Personally, I think back at 1E and am embarassed at how silly mages could get.... aren't you?

There is that balance word again.

As someone who shares his viewpoint I'll say I'm not at all. I'm more embarassed by 3.5 Pokepaladins myself.