D&D 3.x 3.5 Soulknife - Does it need a power point reserve?

[Jeff Wilder]

Sort of like how the 2nd level spell Ray of Stupidity (no save) causes a loss of 1d4 +1 points of Int - which will neutralize a wizard rather quickly - since each "hit" drops the spell level the caster can cast by 2 (assuming a starting Intelligence score of less than 20).

And assuming that losing the INT affects the level the caster can cast anyway, right? I mean, unless a wizard is 15th level, losing 2 off his INT of 20 doesn't cost him spell-level access.

That said, ray of stupidity is an idiotic spell. (That's the one that does actual ability damage, right?)

This also affects wand use since you must meet the Ability score requisite in order to use the spell in addition to having it on your spell list.

That's interesting. Where's that rule? (I can't find it under "wands" or "spell trigger" in the SRD, whereas I can find it readily for scrolls.)

Help me out with the spell specifics for the spell that drains pp - I can't off hand recall the details.

I can't, sorry. I've read a spell or power than drains PP, but as I said, I can't stand psionics, so I make no effort to remember where that stuff is. (And I have so many 3.5 books, even when I do make an effort to remember where stuff is, I fail.)

 

[irdeggman]

That said, ray of stupidity is an idiotic spell. (That's the one that does actual ability damage, right?)

There are other spells, psionics and weapon abilities that do ability score damage too.

That's interesting. Where's that rule? (I can't find it under "wands" or "spell trigger" in the SRD, whereas I can find it readily for scrolls.)

My bad on that one. You do lose bonus spells.

I can't, sorry. I've read a spell or power than drains PP, but as I said, I can't stand psionics, so I make no effort to remember where that stuff is. (And I have so many 3.5 books, even when I do make an effort to remember where stuff is, I fail.)

There are weapon abilities that do it (and the soulknife can add them to his mindblade).

Mindcrusher: Any psionic creature struck in combat by a mindcrusher weapon loses a number of power points equal to half the amount of hit point damage the weapon deals (only the base damage of the weapon contributes to the power point loss; additional damage from high Strength or other sources does not cause additional power point loss). A psionic creature that is out of power points (or has none) must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or take 1d2 points of Wisdom damage.
Strong psychometabolism; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psychic vampire; Price +2 bonus

In fact here are a few other abilities that a soulknife can add to his mindblade. Core only (there are more in Complete psionic and in the Eberron books). I love playing a Kalashtar soulknife.

Mindfeeder: All feeder weapons have a special ability that functions only upon scoring a successful critical hit. A mindfeeder weapon grants its wielder temporary power points equal to the total damage dealt by a successful critical hit. These temporary power points last for 10 minutes. The wielder gains power points even if the target has none (effectively, its hit point damage is converted to power points). Constructs and undead are not subject to mindfeeder weapons. As with temporary hit points, temporary power points do not stack with each other; they overlap. Thus, if a mindfeeder weapon successfully scores a critical hit while the wielder still enjoys temporary power points from a previous critical hit, the wielder gains only the better of the two values: either her current number of temporary power points, or the new influx of temporary power points, whichever is higher.
Strong psychometabolism; ML 15th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psychic vampire; Price +3 bonus.


Soulbreaker: This weapon has a special ability that functions only upon scoring a successful critical hit. On a successful critical hit, a soulbreaker weapon bestows one negative level on the foe. One day after being struck, if the negative levels have not been purged, the subject must succeed on a DC 18 Fortitude save for each negative level or lose a character level.
Strong telepathy; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, mindwipe; Price +3 bonus.

Basically IMO a soulkinfe is a tremendous anti-spellcaster class due to these weapon abilities that can be added. Try using a split mind blade and doing double the effect. With fleet of foot he can move quicker and can take psionic feats that help even more.


Since you admittedly avoid psionics with a passion - I don't think it is real wise to assume rules (or their balance) based on what you read without attempting to apply them.

There are a lot of intricacies involved with psionics that when introduced into a game that even things out.

There are powers that do charisma damage (ego whip) - which can be devasting to spontaneous casters.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Since you admittedly avoid psionics with a passion - I don't think it is real wise to assume rules (or their balance) based on what you read without attempting to apply them.

There are a lot of intricacies involved with psionics that when introduced into a game that even things out.

This is a matter of game design, not of psionics or balance.

Any class feature that is designed so that a single, trivial, low-level effect can completely cripple the class is bad game design. That has nothing to do with psionics, except that people are arguing that the soulknife possesses such a class feature, but is fine anyway.

Luckily, the 3E designers recognized the problem, and fixed it in the transition between 3.0 and 3.5.

 

[irdeggman]

This is a matter of game design, not of psionics or balance.

Any class feature that is designed so that a single, trivial, low-level effect can completely cripple the class is bad game design. That has nothing to do with psionics, except that people are arguing that the soulknife possesses such a class feature, but is fine anyway.

Luckily, the 3E designers recognized the problem, and fixed it in the transition between 3.0 and 3.5.

Again - what is the low level effect that removes pp? The weapon ability is not a low level effect - it is a +2 abilitity which translates to a +3 equivalant weapon - which is hardly "low level".

Actually you are about the only one posting who thinks that was the "fix" or "intent" of the text. The rest of us follow the pattern of WotC writing and not always including the actual text in the place where it should be.

Now the FAQ covering Prestige Classes was necessary because there is no other section of rules that had addressed that, in fact without that the EAW reads that it should count towards multiclassing penalties.

While the soulknife information is included in a different section of the class description (as well as supported by supplemental rules).

A single blow from a raging barbarian (using a two handed weapon and power attack) will kill a first level wizard/sorcerer - shouldn't that require more of a "fix"?

How about the effects of killing a familiar to a 2nd level wizard/sorcerer?

A lot of these issues were "fixed" in 4th ed - but that is an entirely different game.

 

[Voadam]

Except its not a class feature- its a specific bonus feat which does nothing else but provide PP, thus making a PC with the feat eligible for Psionic feats and certain PrCls.

And in this case, provide the PP for manifesting a Mind Blade.

It is a class feature.

Wild Talent
A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

Wild talent does not just give the character power points. According to the text of the feat it gives you the designation of psionic character. As a psionic character you gain 2 power point reserve and can take various feats.

Wild Talent [General]
Your mind wakes to a previously unrealized talent for psionics.

Benefit
Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of 2 power points and can take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats. You do not, however, gain the ability to manifest powers simply by virtue of having this feat.

The only text linking mindblade to power point reserves is the parenthetical in the wild talent class feature entry of the soulknife class.

Wild Talent
A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

This could be legacy text that was meant to be excised when they changed from 3.0 to 3.5 as most 3.5 psionic powers do not require a psionic reserve but have been replaced by other mechanics such as the psionic focus or the soulknife's psychic strike recharge mechanic.

However RAW the parenthetical still can make sense.

If it did require a power point reserve the last phrase of the parenthetical makes sense.

However it still makes sense even if you don't need a power point reserve. It then just implies there is another way a mindblade could be psionically powered.

The problem with interpreting the need for a reserve is that you must infer that extra requirement from the ambiguous phrasing of the parenthetical.

When I read it I do not naturally read that parenthetical statement as a power point reseve requirement.

 

[irdeggman]

This could be legacy text that was meant to be excised when they changed from 3.0 to 3.5 as most 3.5 psionic powers do not require a psionic reserve but have been replaced by other mechanics such as the psionic focus or the soulknife's psychic strike recharge mechanic.

However RAW the parenthetical still can make sense.

If it did require a power point reserve the last phrase of the parenthetical makes sense.

However it still makes sense even if you don't need a power point reserve. It then just implies there is another way a mindblade could be psionically powered.

The problem with interpreting the need for a reserve is that you must infer that extra requirement from the ambiguous phrasing of the parenthetical.

When I read it I do not naturally read that parenthetical statement as a power point reseve requirement.

How about when combined with the text from the Kalashtar racial substitution levels?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4581998-post10.html

And the similar text for the Xeph racial substitution levels.

If it was merely text that wasn't removed then WotC had at least 2 other times (in subsequent products) where they could have done so and did not. So I fall back on the preponderance of evidence that a pp reserve is required to manifest a mindblade.

Also the "parenthetical" text is present in the SRD version and that means it is not considered "color" or "flavor" text since the SRD has that removed.

 

[Voadam]

How about when combined with the text from the Kalashtar racial substitution levels?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4581998-post10.html

And the similar text for the Xeph racial substitution levels.

If it was merely text that wasn't removed then WotC had at least 2 other times (in subsequent products) where they could have done so and did not. So I fall back on the preponderance of evidence that a pp reserve is required to manifest a mindblade.

Also the "parenthetical" text is present in the SRD version and that means it is not considered "color" or "flavor" text since the SRD has that removed.

Yes, even with that language.

"This substitution feature replaces the standard soulknife's free Wild Talent feat. Since all Kalashtar gain power points for free, the character does not need this feat to matierialize his mind blade."

I'll assume Kalashtar are like Xephs:

Naturally Psionic: Xephs gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.

So Xephs and Kalashtar have power points.

The parenthetical says: "This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise" which seems to say that having power points outside of wild talent is an alternate possibility for having the psionic power needed to materialize a mindblade.

The racial substitution level seems to take advantage of that possibility and make it a reality.

This can be interpreted either way and not be logically incoherent. The psionic designation from wild talent could be irrelevant to powering the mindblade and it is only the retained power points that provide the power to manifest a mindblade. Alternately it could be that the class feature wild talent is all that is needed while having a different source of power points is an alternate method. Both are logically consistent with the wording RAW including these later written racial substitution levels.

However looking to outside sources and references provides more contrasts.

When things required a power reserve in 3.0 they said things like "The mind-blade can be used as long as the soulknife’s power point reserve is 1 or more." or "While the character retains 1 or more power points, his or her mind automatically generates a tangible field of force that provides a +4 armor bonus to AC."

Even in 3.5 when they require you to have power points they say it directly, not imply it indirectly "If you have 1 or more power points available, you can meditate to attempt to become psionically focused."

So instead of using explicit existing language which cannot be interpreted to not require a power point reserve the 3.5 soulknife uses ambiguous language that can reasonably be interpreted not to require a power point reserve.

The language "have power points available" from the psionic focus section also sounds like a distinction from the "has no power points otherwise" language of the soulknife wild talent parenthetical which does not specify "power points available".

I'd say that with the 3.0 power reserve language excised and the parenthetical being open to either interpretation but requiring an indirect implication using language dissimilar from the other examples of power reserve requirements the preponderance of the evidence is that the no power reserve interpretation is more likely correct.

 

[irdeggman]

Kalashtar are better than Xeph with regard to pp.

They get 1 pp per character level.

 

[irdeggman]

I'd say that with the 3.0 power reserve language excised and the parenthetical being open to either interpretation but requiring an indirect implication using language dissimilar from the other examples of power reserve requirements the preponderance of the evidence is that the no power reserve interpretation is more likely correct.

This intepretation requires eliminating language written in multiple places whereas saying that pp are required requires no deletion of any text.

That is why I go with the preponderance is on requiring pp to manifest a mindblade.

No change to any language is required for that intepretation simply using the text exactly as written provides that interpretation. Any other requires an assumption that something was not removed that should have been removed in multiple palces. I am not going with whether or not it would be "better" to not require pp to manifest a mindblade only what the text states.

 

[Runestar]

Kalashtar are better than Xeph with regard to pp.

They get 1 pp per character level.

Only if you have something to spend the PP on.

In the case of the soulknife (and assuming you don't have any cognizance crystals that require recharging), it typically makes no difference whether you have 1PP or 20. It will remain largely unexpended.

Personally, I feel that clause was meant as little more than flavour text. When you think about it, there is really nothing about the soulknife which makes it uniquely psionic, so I suspect they may have thrown in that phrase in at the last moment to "psionic'ify" it.