D&D 3.x 3.5 Soulknife - Does it need a power point reserve?

[pawsplay]

I'm taking a third option. Soulknives do require a pp reserve, but there is no requirement that it have 1 or more pp currently in it. I think a precedent can be drawn from creatures with psi-like abilities.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It is a class feature.

The only class feature there is a bonus feat. The bonus feat in this case is limited to Wild Talent. To some, this is a distinction without a difference, to others, it makes all the difference in the world.

Wild Talent
A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

If the Soulknife's Wild Talent is a "class feature," then the rules of logic dictate that any Fighter Feat that can be taken at 1st level is a "class feature," any Fighter Feat that can be taken at 2nd level is a "class feature," and so forth (each set size numbers in the dozens). Ditto Metamagic or Item Creation feats available to a 5th level Wizard. The only difference is in the size of the set of options. In the Soulknife's case, the set size is 1. (Until one includes the Racial Substitution levels from other books, that is.)

I think a precedent can be drawn from creatures with psi-like abilities.

Except that its a Supernatural ability, not a psi-like ability.

 

[irdeggman]

Only if you have something to spend the PP on.

In the case of the soulknife (and assuming you don't have any cognizance crystals that require recharging), it typically makes no difference whether you have 1PP or 20. It will remain largely unexpended.

Personally, I feel that clause was meant as little more than flavour text. When you think about it, there is really nothing about the soulknife which makes it uniquely psionic, so I suspect they may have thrown in that phrase in at the last moment to "psionic'ify" it.

Look at the racial substitution level in Races of Eberron (for Kalashtar).

Align mindblade - (instead of Wild talent) - when you spend 1 pp you align your mindlbade with a "good alignment" for purposes of overcoming DR.

Purifying Strike (replaces psychic strike) - spend 3 pp to dispell each mind-affecting spell or ability influencing the target.

Racial feats (in same book) for Kalashtar:

Strength of Two

As long as you have at least 1 pp you receive a +1 insight bonus on Will saves. In addition as an imediate action you can spend 1 pp to increase this bonus to +5 for 1 round.

Kalashtar Thoughtshifter (tactical)

- Can spend 1 pp as a swift action to have next mindblade attack ignor your opponent's shield

- Can spend 1 pp (after 2 consecutive rounds) to get +1 insight bonus onmelee attack and damge rools

- Can spend 1 pp to change shape of mindblade in mid-blow

 

[Jhaelen]

This is just a rules-lawyer thing for me.

Ah, alright. Then I'll just bow out of the discussion

 

[Voadam]

This intepretation requires eliminating language written in multiple places whereas saying that pp are required requires no deletion of any text.

That is why I go with the preponderance is on requiring pp to manifest a mindblade.

No change to any language is required for that intepretation simply using the text exactly as written provides that interpretation. Any other requires an assumption that something was not removed that should have been removed in multiple palces. I am not going with whether or not it would be "better" to not require pp to manifest a mindblade only what the text states.

And I believe you are factually wrong.

None of the text in the statements need be eliminated to interpret no need for a power point reserve when a soulknife has the wild talent class feature.

You are interpreting psionic power to necessarily be power points. I am not.

(This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

Is it solely the power point reserve which unspent power points granted by the wild talent feat add to that is needed? The text does not say so. It says the Wild Talent class feature powers it. Wild talent does other things besides grant the character power points which can maintain a reserve if unspent and not drained. Wild talent "flares to life" "latent power of psionics" and grants the designation of psionic character.

I interpret "if he has no power points otherwise" as a separate method that could provide the prionic power needed. Examples being the substitution levels wich requires they have power points.

No change of language required, no need to assume anything was not removed.

 

[Arkhandus]

Yes. And, again, you fail to explain why the language was removed in the Mind Blade description between 3.0 and 3.5. Whether you acknowledge it or not, that removal is important.

The language in Wild Talent is vestigial. It doesn't even explicitly say that a PP reserve is required. It only implies it. And the reason it only implies it is that in an earlier version of the Soulknife, a PP reserve was explicitly required ... in the Mind Blade description. When that requirement was removed, the editors simply forgot to remove the implicit reminder.

This is not analogous to other instances of misplaced rules you've pointed out. Those are rules, wherever they're located. The language in Wild Talent is simply a reminder of what Wild Talent does, along with a vestigial note of why the class used to require the feat.

This is basic canon of construction stuff.

It's not really vestigial, though, because that text was never in the original Soulknife description. All the original Soulknife said similar to that was that a power point reserve of 1 or higher was needed to manifest the mindblade. Wild Talent wasn't a feat nor a class feature in 3.0. So it's just something the 3.5 designers added for no reason.

 

[irdeggman]

And I believe you are factually wrong.

None of the text in the statements need be eliminated to interpret no need for a power point reserve when a soulknife has the wild talent class feature.

You are interpreting psionic power to necessarily be power points. I am not.



Is it solely the power point reserve which unspent power points granted by the wild talent feat add to that is needed? The text does not say so. It says the Wild Talent class feature powers it. Wild talent does other things besides grant the character power points which can maintain a reserve if unspent and not drained. Wild talent "flares to life" "latent power of psionics" and grants the designation of psionic character.

I interpret "if he has no power points otherwise" as a separate method that could provide the prionic power needed. Examples being the substitution levels wich requires they have power points.

No change of language required, no need to assume anything was not removed.

And do not forget to add in the text from the racial substitution level for Kalashtar soulknife (from Races of Eberron - pg 125)

This substitution feature replaces the standard soulknife's free Wild talent feat. Since all kalashtar gain power points for free, the character does not need this feat to matierialize his mind blade.

Similar words for the Xeth racial substitution level (from a different source).

Now you must ignore the language from the two other sources cited as supporting rules for this interpretation.

Note that this quote does not mention psionic power at all it mentions power points..

Now if people want to selectively read text to support their POV - that is fine, but don't discredit those who seek to find supporting rules sources to make an interpretation.

 

[Mirabalis]

Well, I guess the way I see it is that the feat gives you pp, and makes you psionic, which is needed to power the Mind Blade, BUT the Mind Blade text doesn't require you to have any pp remaining in order to manifest.

That seems clear enough to me. Every other ability that requires you to have at least one power point SAYS so, from Psionic Feats to having a Psionic Focus...

 

[irdeggman]

Well, I guess the way I see it is that the feat gives you pp, and makes you psionic, which is needed to power the Mind Blade, BUT the Mind Blade text doesn't require you to have any pp remaining in order to manifest.

That seems clear enough to me. Every other ability that requires you to have at least one power point SAYS so, from Psionic Feats to having a Psionic Focus...

Compare this to the text from the racial substitution levels I mentioned and they sure seem to just about state you need pp to manifest a mindblade, but since those races already gain pp for free then they don't need the feat.

 

[Theroc]

Compare this to the text from the racial substitution levels I mentioned and they sure seem to just about state you need pp to manifest a mindblade, but since those races already gain pp for free then they don't need the feat.

Being a race with a PP reserve makes them Psionic right? By being Psionic already they need no feat to give them the powerpoints to make them Psionic.

I'm not an expert on Psionics, and I haven't seen all of the materials, but it seems to me having power points is one of the requirements of being a Psionic character. Therefore, since the only feat I know of that MAKES you a Psionic Character is that Wild Talent feat, one needs that feat to be the psionic so as to be able to manifest the mindblade.

That's my interpretation from seeing the SRD only. I suppose I'm just rehashing the same thing, but I guess I just don't get why having the powerpoints is relevant to using the mindblade if they don't USE powerpoints.