D&D 3.x 3.5 Spell Focus gives only +1 to DCs

[Tyrrell]

Whoops, double post

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. With the new buff spells, I think most of these astonishing high saves everyone here seems to be talking about (IMC, the players have rather low chances to save most of the time) are gonna be lower.

 

[Al]

Hmm. With the new buff spells, I think most of these astonishing high saves everyone here seems to be talking about (IMC, the players have rather low chances to save most of the time) are gonna be lower.

Yes, but the DCs are also going to be lower. Every thread about the buff spells seems to rotate around the notion that the wizard give a 3xEmpowered Fox's Cunning on himself and nearly nothing to anyone else. At the very least, the sensible wizard can be expected to give himself an Int buff. The nerfs work both way- probably to the caster's detriment.

Oh my, the whiners again.

w00t! man u suk.

Please make sensible comment rather than just insulting people.

See before, I didn't allow Greater Spell Focus

I think this is called putting the cart before the horse. Nerfing core rules to bring supplements into line is not a sensible idea. Sure, GSF is now core, but it now takes twice as many feats to achieve in core what could always be achieved.

Consider another feat that wasn't as powerful, Ability Focus

For many monsters, that special ability makes up just as much of their offensive capabilities as one school does for a caster. A cockatrice's petrifictation is equally as much a part of its danger as a caster's spells. Given that many monsters can use their abilities at will, they actually get more usage out of Ability Focus.

Also remember that since base DCs are based on hit dice, the Ability Focus remains pertinent. If Spell Focus only applies to one spell, it would quickly become obsolete.

And a balanced rule system allows the lowliest min/maxer to the greatest roleplayer (who sucks at crunching numbers) to play the game

Not really. All systems will enable min/maxers to predominate. Making the system weaker just shifts the emphasis from making non-min/maxers balanced and min/maxers overpowered to making non-min/maxers underpowered and min/maxers balanced.

 

[Li Shenron]

Unless you are referring to the possibility that Spellcasting Prodigy is now core. If that's the case, then yes you will get an extra +1 to all your DC's.

Well, now if Spellcasting Prodigy becomes core (and i suppose without regional requirement as there might be in FR) and SF & GSF are tone down, this is REALLY going to make me angry. What would be the point in taking SF for +1 in ONE school if you can have the same if ALL spells, AND the other bonus? That you can later take GSF for another +1 at the expense of another feat? That you don't have to take it at 1st level?

Why not do the same with Weapon Specialization? +2 damage over a dice roll which at most is d12 means at least about +30% to the average damage, and almost +20% (ok, approx!) to the max damage. I don't think WS gets halved and GWS now means +2.

The more 3.5e gets closed and the more my mood changes to nervous... I was very excited at the idea of a revision, but some of the latest news don't appeal me when they tone down a thing and then bump up another to restore a kind of "balance" that might have been there in the first place. Bump up the Ranger with unneeded things like Endurance and Evasion (and 3!! free feats to combat path) to then drop HD to d8? Halve Spell Focus "because it's too popular" to then make SProdigy core - possibly the most popular feat in FR ever? So... since ALL of my Wizards and Sorcerers started at 1st level took Toughness, does it make it powerful enough to be toned down in the revision?

If I sound harsh, it's because I am. I apologize.

 

[cable]

Hmm. With the new buff spells, I think most of these astonishing high saves everyone here seems to be talking about (IMC, the players have rather low chances to save most of the time) are gonna be lower.

Monsters don't use buff spells. Have a look at the new Bone Devil. Fort +12 Ref +12 and Will +11. SR 21. It's suppose to be a CR 9 monster.

A 25 pt buy a 9th lvl wizard with 21 int (2 stat raises to int and a +4 item). Without any feats the wizard has only a 40% chance of affecting the devil with any spell (SR) and even if the wizard breaks through SR the wiz has only a 40% chance to affect the devil with a 5th lvl ref or fort save spell. With SF/GSF and spell penetration, the wizard still has less than 50% chance to affect the devil with his highest lvl spell. At 9th lvl the wizard only basically gets 1 5th lvl spell. It must be so fun to have spent 3 out of 5 feats to be practically useless . You can forget about lower level spells because the chances of them working are even lower. In this and just about any encounter in 3.5e it would have been better to replace the wizard with a character of another class.

 

[cable]

Well, now if Spellcasting Prodigy becomes core (and i suppose without regional requirement as there might be in FR) and SF & GSF are tone down, this is REALLY going to make me angry. What would be the point in taking SF for +1 in ONE school if you can have the same if ALL spells, AND the other bonus? That you can later take GSF for another +1 at the expense of another feat? That you don't have to take it at 1st level?

Why not do the same with Weapon Specialization? +2 damage over a dice roll which at most is d12 means at least about +30% to the average damage, and almost +20% (ok, approx!) to the max damage. I don't think WS gets halved and GWS now means +2.

The more 3.5e gets closed and the more my mood changes to nervous... I was very excited at the idea of a revision, but some of the latest news don't appeal me when they tone down a thing and then bump up another to restore a kind of "balance" that might have been there in the first place. Bump up the Ranger with unneeded things like Endurance and Evasion (and 3!! free feats to combat path) to then drop HD to d8? Halve Spell Focus "because it's too popular" to then make SProdigy core - possibly the most popular feat in FR ever? So... since ALL of my Wizards and Sorcerers started at 1st level took Toughness, does it make it powerful enough to be toned down in the revision?

If I sound harsh, it's because I am. I apologize.

It absolutely NOT like WoTC to nerf balanced feats like Spell Focus just because they are about to introduce horribly unbalanced feats like Spellcasting Prodigy or horribly unbalanced PrCs like the Red Wizard or the Archmage would it?

 

[mmu1]

Monsters don't use buff spells. Have a look at the new Bone Devil. Fort +12 Ref +12 and Will +11. SR 21. It's suppose to be a CR 9 monster.

A 25 pt buy a 9th lvl wizard with 21 int (2 stat raises to int and a +4 item). Without any feats the wizard has only a 40% chance of affecting the devil with any spell (SR) and even if the wizard breaks through SR the wiz has only a 40% chance to affect the devil with a 5th lvl ref or fort save spell. With SF/GSF and spell penetration, the wizard still has less than 50% chance to affect the devil with his highest lvl spell. At 9th lvl the wizard only basically gets 1 5th lvl spell. It must be so fun to have spent 3 out of 5 feats to be practically useless . You can forget about lower level spells because the chances of them working are even lower. In this and just about any encounter in 3.5e it would have been better to replace the wizard with a character of another class.

If your point is that a 9th level wizard will have a hard time disabling a CR 9 monster all by himself, all you're basically proving is that in this particular instance, the CR system works.

The wizard doesn't have a very good chance of taking out a monster that's supposed to be a challenge for the whole party with a single spell? Excellent, that's how it's supposed to work. I don't see why anyone is assuming casters should have a good chance of stopping something that's supposed to use up 25% of party resources with a single spell.

 

[cable]

If your point is that a 9th level wizard will have a hard time disabling a CR 9 monster ally by himself, all you're basically proving is that in this particular instance, the CR system works.

The wizard doesn't have a very good chance of taking out a monster that's supposed to be a challenge for the whole party with a single spell? Excellent, that's how it's supposed to work. I don't see why anyone is assuming casters should have a good chance of stopping something that's supposed to use up 25% of party resources with a single spell.

If the wizard can't even affect the monster with his highest level spell what chances are there that he will be able to affect the monster with his lowest level spell? Nada zip. In effect the wizard is useless. Spell focus was there to enable the wizard to make use of his lower level spells. What fun is there if the wizard can only cast 1 or 2 spells in support then basically do nothing for the rest of the combat?

 

[Fenes 2]

If the wizard can't even affect the monster with his highest level spell what chances are there that he will be able to affect the monster with his lowest level spell? Nada zip. In effect the wizard is useless. Spell focus was there to enable the wizard to make use of his lower level spells. What fun is there if the wizard can only cast 1 or 2 spells in support then basically do nothing for the rest of the combat?

Magic Missile does not care about saves. Summon Monster does not care about saves or SR.

 

[Kalanyr]

Summon Monster 9 summons 1 approximately CR 12 creature who in an offensive capacity does nothing, why do people pretend Summon Monster >III does stuff thats worth doing in combat ? Summon Monster after III is a way around no-healing arcane restrictions and similar, not a combat tool. Unless your foes are really really incompetent or so weak (your level - 5) as to be killed in short time by the fighter any way