D&D 3.x 3.5 Spells - Far Weaker?

[The Iron Mark]

As I am going to be in a new campaign soon, I'm starting to realize that all these changes really were for the better. Multi-Empowered with and Extend on all of the animal buff made things get a bit rediculous. Haste made spellcasters the obvious number 1 damage dealer, but it's not so clear now in 3.5. While there are some changes I don't agree with in 3.5, I have to say it was an improvement from 3.0.

 

[Plane Sailing]

heal/harm/haste needed changing for sure.

I really disliked the way that they split up almost all the multi-use spells (symbol, emotion, etc), made some spells unaccountably [evil] (eyebite etc), changed lightning bolt to use 'line', stopped enlarge affecting cones (the one benefit of cones... cheap improvement of area, but you have to be close...), nerfing of spells like disintegrate (2d6 damage per level won't take down any fighter even if he fails his fort save!)

and worst of all...

...pointless tweaking of ranges, areas etc of too many spells to mention.

I had the sense that the designers felt that they had to tweak things to justify the new version. I've got over it now, but I'm still disappointed by many of their decisions.

 

[JoeBlank]

I'm playing a 13th level sorcerer, and I have to say I agree with most of the changes. Given a choice between all 3.0 spells or all 3.5 spells, I would prefer to play with the 3.5 versions. The fracturing of the multi-purpose spells hurt sorcerers the most, but I still think it was for the best.

To my understanding, another big reason for the changes, aside from the almighty balance, was simplicity and fun. Save or die spells can be fun for PCs, but they are no fun if they are cast on your character. It seems I remember someone from WotC explaining the Hold Person change in exactly these terms. In 3.0, if you fail the save v. Hold Person in round 1 you are out for the fight. In 3.5, you have a chance to make it back into the action.

I've never liked the all-day buffs, so I was fine with the reduced durations. I might have gone with slightly longer, as I hate having to waste too many rounds at the start of a combat just to get the right spells up and running. Perhaps a new kind of duration would be best, a sort of short-term contingency such as:

"1 hour/level, if you engage in combat during that time the duration becomes 1 minute/level, beginning on the round you enter combat."

This way, you could cast spells in anticipation of combat, and be ready for a fight, but they would not last all day and would still require multiple castings if you wanted to have them in place for a full day of adventuring.

 

[Stalker0]

I also think the 3.5 mentallity is a less reliance on magic, more reliance on your own abilities.

Now a rogue has to hide at mid to higher levels instead of being invisible all the time.

A fighter has to rely on his base strength, and not the +6 bonus he was getting from his bears strength buff day in and day out.

I think they went too far in some areas, but in general it was a good shift.

 

[Plane Sailing]

To my understanding, another big reason for the changes, aside from the almighty balance, was simplicity and fun. Save or die spells can be fun for PCs, but they are no fun if they are cast on your character.

Although they left in the cleric save or die spells (slay living at 5th, destruction at 7th) which makes the nerfing of disintegrate seem all the more strange. It was already the only thing which you had two chances of avoiding (ranged touch plus fort save) (well, flame arrow had that too of course in 3.0e) - the cleric touch spells were not lost if you missed your touch attack for instance.

(My 5th level sorcerer had almost all her spells and stuff nerfed in 3.5! Her main attack was burning hands plus enlarge spell for extra area. Her main defence was endure elements. She also charmed stuff with her spell focus (enchantment) giving a worthwhile +2 to DCs. Thankfully I had an understanding DM and we were able to work things out smoothly!

Cheers

 

[Tarangil]

Yeah, Haste definetly needed changing. When I first picked up 3E and saw that haste would allow you to cast two spells a turn my eyes almost bugged out of me sockets. As a player I was Salivating to bring my 2E wizard up to speed (pun intended) and take advantage of this Faux paus...but as a DM I was thinking WTF?! Did anyone proofread this???

 

[Evilhalfling]

but why god why did they have to change silence 15 radius to a 20 radius????
darkness 15 radius to 20'radius (otherwise after ignoring the dumb creates a shadowed area in full darkness - I prefer the new version)

 

[Infiniti2000]

but why god why did they have to change silence 15 radius to a 20 radius????

Because of the gridded combat system. 15ft radius when you have to target an intersection is a PITA. Of course, 20ft radius when it's centered on a creature (Space of 5) sucks, too.

 

[shaylon]

Don't worry about magic being nerfed, Complete Arcane came along and brought in a whole new batch of broken spells -- in this case, no-SR energy or force damage. Golems' "magic immunity" is now worthless.

My DM must have saw this thread because we all got a message that said this is now house ruled! Since I am the wizard this hurts!

Oh well, I don't use Complete Arcane that much anyway.

-Shay

 

[XCorvis]

I think you're overreacting. As a DM, I agree with the vast majority of the spell changes. They make the game faster, easier and more consistant. Gameplay is improved. As a player, I miss them a little bit, but it's no big deal because things are faster, easier and consistant.

Some spells you consider nerfed were changed because of the addition of other spells. Overland flight was the reason Fly was changed. Fly is a combat spell, overland flight is a transportation spell.

A few were nerfed because they make other things, like skills, useless. Who needs Hide when you have invisibility? Well, invisibility works for a bit, but now you need Hide too.

There were a few spells that were flat out improved with 3.5. Confusion affects multiple targets now. Polymorph is better because you don't spend half an hour trying to figure out exactly how it works. I'm sure there are a few more.

Eyebite is Evil because it's the Evil Eye.

Also, it's spelled NERF. As in Nerf foam darts, that bounce off things instead of hurting them.