D&D 3.x 3.5 Spells - Far Weaker?

[Gaiden]

one big downside that I've seen as a lower level mage (5th) with the short duration spells is it forces one of two things, either I spend the first couple rounds running around from tank to tank like a chicken with my head cut off casting bulls strength, mage armour and everything else, or everyone fights defencively and refuses to take inititive for a few rounds and clusters around me letting me buff them up. I definatly don't like the changes to invisibility. One other problem with the spell durations being measured in minutes rather than hours is I have yet to see a method of accurately measuring the passage of time outside of combat. This leads to all sorts of problems like if a rouge were scouting an enemy position only to have the DM say his invisibilty just dropped because one or both of them are confused in regards to exactly how much time has passed... unless of course you are willing to do an entire session in inititive order but that would get kinda silly.

Actually, my experience has been just that. Our group would enter a dungeon (let's say a wererat thieve's guild hideout), cast our buffs, and then we would storm the place not at all playing rationally, but rushing through as fast as possible to maximize the use of our buff spell. When you have PfE, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Bless Weapon, Aid, Zeal, and enlarge person on your low level paladin (let's say 4th), you either have to play realistically - after the battle, securing the room, with tactical movement forward, or throw realism to the wind to maximize on your short durations just blindly running forward trusting in your buffs to protect you. The result for our group was a massacre of wererats. If I had been the DM, the players would have all ended up dead. There is always the option of just leaving and resting to return the following day, but that from a design perspective seems silly to me and from an in game perspective would never actually work.

Also, the shorter durations on buff spells completely changes spell combats. No longer is your first response to cast a targeted dispel on the fighter types, but, rather just to escape for a half hour or so and then come back and womp on your resource-depleted foes. This, of course, in turn prompts people to not cast the buffs in the first place...which sort of defeats the purpose of shortening their duration, doesn't it. (that is correct, that was not a question.)

 

[Len]

How is he going to do it better? Does he have ranks in hide or move silently? Both are still useful/necissary even when flying and being invisible.

one does not negate the other, generally it just makes the other better.

Maybe not better, but nevertheless there are plenty of players who will just cast fly and invisibility on themselves without even bothering to consult the rogue.

 

[Scion]

Maybe not better, but nevertheless there are plenty of players who will just cast fly and invisibility on themselves without even bothering to consult the rogue.

Maybe they will do better with their next character, since obviously they want their current one dead

 

[Vladamere]

Spells like fly, invisibility, magic missle, heal, and the polymorphs are what "set the bar", they are the standards by which other spells are measured. These spells define the abilities and limitations of the classes who use them. These spells have remained almost unchanged for nearly 20 YEARS. To change them in such a dramatic way alters the game entirely, making me ask, "Are we playing D&D? or is this some other game that only reminds me of D&D?"

for me, WOTC has ruined the game. All I can do is hope (sniff...)(looses composure) is hope that 4th edition will revoke the mistakes of 3.5, and restore D&D to is former glory.... (light shines down on upturned face)(tear slides down cheek)

I know I'm ranting, don't want to be the troll, I just needed to know that there were others out there who felt the same way. (or diffrently and why, thanks to you too.)

Thank You kind folks for your input. -V

 

[Vladamere]

Er... Yeah. And we just got the internet. Thanks JoeBlank!

 

[The Human Target]

While I think you're really over reacting, I agree some spells were weakened too far.

 

[Caliban]

That's ok, there are brand new broken spells to take the place of the old ones.

(And of course, people who claim that the new "broken" spells aren't really all that powerful if the bad guy's have X ability, spell, or feat.)

 

[Eldragon]

Overall, I like the changes, but (as many people here seem to think likewise) 1 Min/ Level spell durations are far too short. 1 Min/Level spells are apropriate for a dungeon crawl, or other obviously multi-combat intensive session, but when you are in an adventure that centers on a few very difficult battles, you almost never know a battle will start within the next 1-3 minutes.

I house-ruled that all 1 Min / Level spells are increased to 10 Min/Level and have never looked back.

 

[Testament]

Spells like fly, invisibility, magic missle, heal, and the polymorphs are what "set the bar", they are the standards by which other spells are measured. These spells define the abilities and limitations of the classes who use them. These spells have remained almost unchanged for nearly 20 YEARS. To change them in such a dramatic way alters the game entirely, making me ask, "Are we playing D&D? or is this some other game that only reminds me of D&D?"

for me, WOTC has ruined the game. All I can do is hope (sniff...)(looses composure) is hope that 4th edition will revoke the mistakes of 3.5, and restore D&D to is former glory.... (light shines down on upturned face)(tear slides down cheek)

OK, that's it, I've gotta say it.

Actually no, you don't have to say it. Saying something that belittles another poster, even humorously, isn't on - Plane Sailing

 

[Shadowdweller]

just got my hands on a 3.5 Players Handbook and was disapointed to see many of my favroite spells have been, well, er.... Nerfed. (see signature). What is the consensus here regarding sed nerfing? I've checked 2nd edition versions, and 1st editoin versions, and of course 3rd, and to me it seems the overall "power" of spellcasters has stedily decreased with time. Now with 3.5 it seems there is an even steeper decline. Here and there I find increases, but they are outnumbered easily 4 to 1.

You're also ignoring all the ways in which casters got STRENGTHENED in the 3.x line. Things such as spells no longers occuring at the end of the round, flattened xp curves (i.e. vastly reduced requirements), five-foot steps, metamagic feats, incredible ease of attaining hit point boni via stats and/or equipment, casting defensively...to name a few.

Casters still dominate high-level play.