D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Tumbling

[Lord Pendragon]

From the SRD:

DC15 Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so.

So if I have a 30' move and Tumble for 15', do I still have 15' remaining, or is my normal move (short of a Double Move) over? And from that, if I am the subject of an Expeditious Retreat spell, could I tumble for a full 30', since my speed is now 60'?

 

[Ferox4]

From the SRD:So if I have a 30' move and Tumble for 15', do I still have 15' remaining, or is my normal move (short of a Double Move) over?

You still have 15' remaining. Or at least that's the way we've been playing it.

And from that, if I am the subject of an Expeditious Retreat spell, could I tumble for a full 30', since my speed is now 60'?

Hmmmm.....? As I'm sure you've seen under the spell description for Expeditious Retreat it says, "There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly or swim." As a DM I would probably NOT allow you tumble for 30' with the ER spell due to the above spell description. I'm sure someone else out there also has an opinion on this.....

 

[Dwarmaj]

Hehe, I'd rule just the opposite. I'd think you'd be moving at half speed (similar to difficult terrain) and would have no movement left if you tumbled 15' with a base speed of 30'.

Since Expeditious Retreat increases your land movement, I'd let it increase the distance you could tumble as well (as long as you're not tumbling up a wall or something ).

 

[CCamfield]

Hehe, I'd rule just the opposite. I'd think you'd be moving at half speed (similar to difficult terrain) and would have no movement left if you tumbled 15' with a base speed of 30'.

I agree.

- There's no limit on how much of your movement can be Tumbling
- There's an option of Accelerated Tumbling with a -10 to your check, which lets you move at full speed.

I'd count all un-accelerated tumbling as double its normal distance if you do a mix of tumbling and normal movement. If you move 30' and tumble 10', you can walk/run another 10' after that.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Hmmmm.....? As I'm sure you've seen under the spell description for Expeditious Retreat it says, "There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly or swim." As a DM I would probably NOT allow you tumble for 30' with the ER spell due to the above spell description. I'm sure someone else out there also has an opinion on this.....

The tumble skill works through normal movement, Ferox4. It doesn't modify your normal movement to fly, climb, burrow, or even "tumble movement." It adds a quality to normal movement.

The ambiguity, for me, is the portion of the skill description where it says you move "one half speed as part of normal movement." In 3.0 it was merely "up to 20'"...short and sweet. 1/2 speed, on the other hand, makes things murkier.

It may be a modification of the speed of your movement, on the order of the Track feat. Hence in one round, you'd move at 1/2 your speed, but because you're tumbling that movement is protected via the tumbling rules. In this case, since you're actually moving more slowly, there would be no extra movement after the tumbling was over.

Or, it may merely represent an upper limit on how much of your movement can be tumbling. i.e. if you have a base speed of 30' you can move up to 1/2 of your speed as tumbling. This would leave you the other half of your speed as non-tumbling movement.

And in either case, it certainly seems like Expeditious Retreat doubles tumbling movement, since it (for a creature with 30' move,) doubles normal movement, from which the tumbling parameters are derived. Unless there have been other clarifications...?

 

[Ferox4]

Hehe, I'd rule just the opposite. I'd think you'd be moving at half speed (similar to difficult terrain) and would have no movement left if you tumbled 15' with a base speed of 30'.

Since Expeditious Retreat increases your land movement, I'd let it increase the distance you could tumble as well (as long as you're not tumbling up a wall or something ).

No, you're right about the first part. It says move half your base as part of normal movement. I missed that initially. To move again would require another move action. So, we've been playing it wrong all along - oh well.

I would still maintain that ER wouldn't increase the tumbling distance. It specifically names two other skills (climb, swim) that are not effected. I think it's open to interpretation.

Cheers
F4

 

[dreaded_beast]

Here is my take on this:

"Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement"

My understanding is that tumbling here is considered a "part" of the greater whole, which is normal movement. If I'm correct , that means that part of your normal movement (30ft) can be spent tumbling for up to half-your speed (15ft.) So if your normal movement is 30ft, you can tumble up 15ft as part of the 30ft.

ER increases the your base land speed. I think that the term "land" means any hard surface that can support your weight. For instance, if we go by the letter of the law here, then ER wouldn't work on a boat (your on a wooden deck), carpet (your standing on cloth), on the back of a gargantuan monster (your on flesh), on the back of a gargantuan construct (your on whatever), etc.

That being the case I think ER would affect tumbling, if the character in question was tumbling on the above definition of "land". Tumbling in this way would be movement on land (and it is also considered a part of normal movement), so would fall within the requirements for this spell to work.

 

[dreaded_beast]

I would still maintain that ER wouldn't increase the tumbling distance. It specifically names two other skills (climb, swim) that are not effected. I think it's open to interpretation.

I can see your point here, however it also mentions burrow and fly, which are not skills. If it was the intention of the description of the spell to list actual player skills that couldn't be used, then I would agree.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I would still maintain that ER wouldn't increase the tumbling distance. It specifically names two other skills (climb, swim) that are not effected. I think it's open to interpretation.

Yes, but climb and swim actually give different types of movement. For instance, if you thumb through the Monster Manual you can find creatures with listed speeds of "Climb 20ft." or "Swim 50ft." However, tumbling does not create a new form of movement. It merely modifies normal movement.

Consider Tracking. To use the Track feat, you are slowed to 1/2 speed. However, if you were under the effects of Expeditious Retreat, your Tracking speed would double, because 1/2 speed is now 1/2 of [Base Speed + 30ft.]

 

[Ferox4]

Yes, but climb and swim actually give different types of movement. For instance, if you thumb through the Monster Manual you can find creatures with listed speeds of "Climb 20ft." or "Swim 50ft." However, tumbling does not create a new form of movement. It merely modifies normal movement.

Consider Tracking. To use the Track feat, you are slowed to 1/2 speed. However, if you were under the effects of Expeditious Retreat, your Tracking speed would double, because 1/2 speed is now 1/2 of [Base Speed + 30ft.]

Okay, uncle, uncle ....... I will agree that ER doubles tumbling distance. Initially it seemed to me that ER was trying to limit all other forms of movement. I now see that is not the case.

Okay, then when it says under tumble that a character can move up to one-half his normal movement it should really say one-half his current movement. This then takes into consideration spells or items that may be effecting your speed.