D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5]Weapon Finesse & Double Weapons

[Vanye]

When using Weapon Finesse, since the feat now applies to any weapon that qualifies, do you get to use your Dex modifier for the secondary attack with a double weapon, since that qualifies as a light weapon?

TwoWeapon fighting (p160) states that the penalites apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon. The description for the two-bladed sword basically says the same thing. Because of the language "as if", I'm inclined to say that no, you can't use Weapon Finesse with it, but I'd like to see what others say...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Finesse doesn't apply to a double weapon. Only light weapons, rapier, whip, and spiked chain.

The feat is defined by the weapon, not off-hand attack.

 

[LokiDR]

I'd say yes. It acts like a light weapon, which should include being finessable. This would be the same thing a longsword/shortsword fighter doing the same thing.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'd say yes. It acts like a light weapon, which should include being finessable. This would be the same thing a longsword/shortsword fighter doing the same thing.

Well, for 3.5, the rules for TWF read: "The penalties [for attacking with two weapons] apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon," not "treat the off-hand end as a light weapon". It's specifically referring to the -10 or -8 penalty for attacking with the off hand. Thus, Weapon Finesse: no.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, for 3.5, the rules for TWF read: "The penalties [for attacking with two weapons] apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon," not "treat the off-hand end as a light weapon". It's specifically referring to the -10 or -8 penalty for attacking with the off hand. Thus, Weapon Finesse: no.

Honestly, it shouldn't matter. A character dual wielding a longsword and short sword should be the same as a character using a double weapon. The short sword of the former dual wielder is finessable, so I see no problem with the off-hand attack for the double weapon being finessable.

By the verbage you posted, this would probably fall into house rule land, but I don't have my 3.5 books yet.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My initial reaction is "no, the off-hand IS not a light weapon; it's only TREATED as a light weapon for TWF penalties therefore finesse can't apply." However, that kind of rule hair-splitting has other consequences: It would allow characters to gain the bonusses from power attack while wielding double weapons. It would also allow characters dual wielding a weapon and shield to benefit from power attack on a shield bash. Now, I don't think that allowing TWF power attacks is really a problem so there may be nothing wrong with that. At least there's less wrong with it than having the primary attack be worse than the secondary attack (if the character's strength were higher than his dex, he wouldn't have weapon finesse and we wouldn't be discussing this). So, my initial reaction is also my considered reaction. . . .

 

[LokiDR]

That brings up an interesting point. 3.5 power attack adds +2 damage/-1 attack stackable to your BAB for 2 handed weapons. A double sword is a two handed weapon. Does this mean power attack 3 gives you 6 damage on off-hand and on-hand damage? That seems to skirt the intentioned change in power attack.

 

[kilamanjaro]

In the two weapon fighting section of the 3.5 handbook it explains that power attack treats double weapons as a 1 handed weapon and a light weapon. You have the option of only using one end to attack and treating it as a 2 handed weapon.

 

[Murrdox]

No Weapon Finesse for the "off-hand-end" of a double weapon. For the reason that Elder Basalisk said.

It's only TREATED as a light weapon for TWF purposes.

Plus what happens if you switch which side is your primary hand, and which side is your off hand?

 

[drnuncheon]

Honestly, it shouldn't matter. A character dual wielding a longsword and short sword should be the same as a character using a double weapon.

So, are you saying that a double sword should do 1d8/1d6 damage, then?

A double sword is like weilding two longswords, except you get to reduce the penalties by 2.

J