D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Damage Reduction

[drnuncheon]

Still a bad idea, the golf bag lives and logic and fantasy literature does not. I would like some examples of creatures in fantasy that are hurt by normal materials but are unharmed by magic.

Werewolves, the canonical example of DR. If you find werewolves hurt by magic weapons, it's probably magic designed to fight werewolves (or something else that a werewolf happens to be, like 'evil').

(And, of course, D&D literature doesn't count, since that's circular reasoning.)

J

 

[green slime]

Petrosian:

Nobody said they were going to make ALL materials rare...

IMC there will be a difference between ordinary steel and "cold iron". Maybe everyone with 1 skill in Craft (weaponsmithing) can handle "Cold Iron". Whatever rocks your boat man... Even so, consider the likelihood of such a weapon being a practical weapon, do you truly consider that they will be readily available for purchase? Or would it be more likely that it be constructed to combat a specific threat?

Silver, same thing. Not many weapons are going to be manufactured in Silver, UNLESS there is a bloody good reason. Maybe in a place where lycanthropes are running rampant. Otherwise, silver swords aren't going to be found in your everyday weapons-mart. YMMV.

Adamantine and Mithral ARE special substances, and shouldn't be found hiding behind every all the piles of magic weapons.

SO see, there is a difference: If the players DECIDE to manufacture a SILVER weapon, bully for them. Just because some material is relatively common, does not mean that all materials are automatically available as weapons for ready purchase.

Feel free to supply your players with golf bags for their arms. IMC, I shall simply limit the availability of weapons made from special materials.

It all comes down whether the players see it worthwile to lug around the extra burden. If you constantly throw creatures of varying DRs at them, and the players have memorized the creatures DRs, and let them metagame knowledge that their PCs may not necessarily know, then of course you will end up with "golf bags".

 

[AuraSeer]

And given the cost for magical weapons, players will be waiting a long time until they have a golf bag of magical weapons of differing materials to combat the various nasties they encounter.

Cost? What cost? Perhaps you haven't met my friend Greater Magic Weapon.

(Aside: Could you please cut it out with the green text? It's nearly impossible to read in my browser.)

 

[Lord Rasputin]

Cost? What cost? Perhaps you haven't met my friend Greater Magic Weapon.

Which, according to Dragon, They are weakening to +1/4 levels.

As Wizards is not making spells to defeat DRs other than magic and alignment (and maybe epic), you will need the Golfbag of Many Swords. "Boy, fetch me the coldiron!"

 

[drnuncheon]

Cost? What cost? Perhaps you haven't met my friend Greater Magic Weapon.

In which case the cost is a 3rd level spell slot for each weapon, and the actions needed to cast it on the weapons of all of your buddies when you meet the critter with DR.

(Except for the archer, I suppose, who can have 5 of each special arrow and hit 'em all with one GMW.)

J

 

[green slime]

AuraSeer postulated

Cost? What cost? Perhaps you haven't met my friend Greater Magic Weapon.

Have you met the DM's friend Dispel Magic? Not to mention that you might just run out of Greater Magic Weapon slots during a hard days campaigning.... But of course, by all means, carry a golf bag of minor tricks if you feel the extra weight to be worthwile. I feel no compunction about avoiding cheese when players are being so cheesy.

AuraSeer bemoaned


(Aside: Could you please cut it out with the green text? It's nearly impossible to read in my browser.)

Of course, I had no idea it would cause any problems. BTW, what browser are you using? Highlighting the text usually helps. Strange that it turns out so dark in your browser...

 

[coyote6]

Which, according to Dragon, They are weakening to +1/4 levels.

Which issue of Dragon was that in?

 

[Petrosian]

Obviously, any Gm can (and it semes many will) create house rules to make "non-magical materials" listed on the new designer-dr charts rare in order to make designer-dr work.

In a world where silver weapons are sometimes needed and where cold iron weapons are sometimes needed its not inherently logical to design the world so oblivious that they are not prepared.

Even once we get past the notion that these weapons are for some reasoning RARER than magic enchanted weapons, the logic falls down.

To my mind the logical solution to the problem "dr values are trumped by magic weapons and GMW" is to change the values so that the trumping is not so absolute... not to turn mundane materials into some rare weapon category. Magic should beat mundane.

Making werewolf non-silver immunity not beatable by magic weapons, but leaving it still helpless against magic missile, ray of frost, and lightning bolt doesn't salvage the werewolf's "traditional feel"... it just makes carrying around a silver dagger sensible.

That Gms can and likely will make silver weapons and cold iron weapons and designer-dr-material-weapons-de-jour-from-the-latest-dragon-beastie-corn-cob-clubs rarer and harder to find that plain ole magic weapons is not even in dispute.

What is in dispute is is this "solution" a good one or one thats a cure worse than the original affliction.

its obvious where I sit, others will come down differently.

Petrosian:

Nobody said they were going to make ALL materials rare...

IMC there will be a difference between ordinary steel and "cold iron". Maybe everyone with 1 skill in Craft (weaponsmithing) can handle "Cold Iron". Whatever rocks your boat man... Even so, consider the likelihood of such a weapon being a practical weapon, do you truly consider that they will be readily available for purchase? Or would it be more likely that it be constructed to combat a specific threat?

Silver, same thing. Not many weapons are going to be manufactured in Silver, UNLESS there is a bloody good reason. Maybe in a place where lycanthropes are running rampant. Otherwise, silver swords aren't going to be found in your everyday weapons-mart. YMMV.

 

[green slime]

Originally commented by Petrosian


...

What is in dispute is is this "solution" a good one or one thats a cure worse than the original affliction.

...

And on this perhaps we can agree. To me either solution leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The real question being: Which taste do I prefer the least?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Werewolves, the canonical example of DR. If you find werewolves hurt by magic weapons, it's probably magic designed to fight werewolves (or something else that a werewolf happens to be, like 'evil').

(And, of course, D&D literature doesn't count, since that's circular reasoning.)

J

Are there specfic instances that you can think of where werewolves were not hurt by magic weapons of any kind? Are there instances in worlds were werewolves are not the only monsters?

I don't play the game but if somebody who does could give the answer I would apreciate it. How does White Wolf's Werewolf stuff deal with the issue of silver and magic vulnerability?