[3.5E] In The Works - Changes to the Titan

[MerricB]

G'day, people!

The latest In the Works has been posted on the Wizards website.

Of particular note:
* Changes to the structure of the DMG (Discussion)
* The stats for the 3.5E Titan
* A few D&D miniatures shown in relative scale (Discussion)

This thread is about the second of those three significant notes.

The Titan 's revised stats can be found here

Of note:
* No change to hit dice, but changes to ability scores increase hit points dramatically
* Loss of spellcasting ability, and a reduction in spell-like ability
* No change to Challenge Rating!!!

Cheers!

 

[Olive]

I like the way that each spell like has the DC right there. Saves heaps of time. I also like the way that the environment give the plane in the revision, just like FF.

edit: removed a comment based on misreading the previous post.

 

[MerricB]

List of changes:
* Subtypes went from (Chaotic, Good) to (Chaotic, Extraplanar)
* Hit dice: 20d8+120 -> 20d8+280
* Speed: 90 ft -> 60 ft (40 ft in half plate)
* AC: 22 -> 38, including a +6 bonus to natural armour and the additional of magical +4 half-plate
* Atk: +31/... to +37/... melee; and +19/... to +22/... ranged; also a Slam attack is added.
* Dmg: 4d6+19 -> 4d6+27 for the melee warhammer attack; 2d6+13 -> 2d6+19 for the javelin.
* Face/Reach: from 10/15 to 15/15
* SA: lost spells
* SA: gained Oversized weapon
* SQ: DR became 15/lawful from 15/+1
* SQ: SR 25 -> SR 32
* SQ: Darkvision explicitly listed
* SV: Fort +27 (was +18); Ref no change, Will +21 (was +17)
* Abilities: Str 37->43, Dex no change, Con 23->39!!!, Int no change, Wis 20->28, Cha 18->24.
* Feats: gained Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (chain lightning)
* Feats: lost Alertness, Expertise, Great Cleave
* CR: no change
* Alignment: From "Always Chaotic Good" to "Always Chaotic (any)"
* Treasure: From "Triple Standard" to "Double Standard plus +4 half-plate armor and Gargantuan +3 adamantine warhammer"

Spell-like abilities
alter self => polymorph (humanoid forms only)
bless - lost
charm person or animal => charm monster
commune with nature - lost
cure light wounds => cure critical wounds
eyebite - lost
fire storm - OK.
halt undead - lost
hold monster - OK.
invisibility - OK.
levitate - OK
light - lost
magic circle against evil - lost
mirror image - lost
pass without trace - lost
persistant image - OK
produce flame - lost
summon nature's ally II - lost
remove curse - Good or neutral titans only.
remove fear - lost
shield - lost
speak with plants - lost
summon swarm - lost
whispering wind - lost
astral projection - lost
etherealness - OK.

chain lightning - gained.
gate - gained
greater dispel magic - gained.
invisibility purge - gained.

maze - gained
meteor swarm - gained
daylight - gained - Good or neutral titans only.
holy smite - gained - Good or neutral titans only.
greater restoration - gained - Good or neutral titans only.
bestow curse - gained - Evil titans only.
deeper darkness- gained - Evil titans only.
unholy blight- gained - Evil titans only.
bigby's crushing hand- gained - Evil titans only.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Oh, those save DCs make it so much easier to use!

So too with the loss of many, many sucky spell-like abilities; summon nature's ally II? for a titan? The remaining spell-like abilities have been chosen with more of an idea of the power of the titan.

Interestingly, the concept of the titan has changed, making them more mythologically accurate - no longer are they automatically Chaotic Good! With a difference in abilities between the Good and Evil titans, that's a very good change IMO.

Cheers!

 

[Kai Lord]

Looks cool, though I would have been happy if they had done nothing more than replace the artwork.

 

[kuroshidaku]

12 pages of "visual aids" seems a tad much. It would have been better to use these as a web enhancement so you could print them off. Screams waste of space to me.

[edit] sorry, i'll put this in the DMG thread

 

[Grog]

CR 21 for that? With 370 HP, a 38 AC, and the ability to use a full attack action and throw a chain lightning every round? Not to mention SR 32 and 15' reach. And heaven help you if your fighter happens to be chaotic and can't use the lawful weapon you need to bypass its DR... Or if he can use a lawful weapon, but that doesn't happen to be his main one, and he has to pull out one of his weaker backup weapons instead.

Oh well, at least he only has a +1 initative so you can run away.

 

[WattsHumphrey]

I have a quick question... what's up with the 3e Titan having a 'Challenge Level' not a 'Challenge Rating'? I had figured it would be clarified in the ELH, but it isn't. It looks like they dropped the 'Challenge Level' thing in favor of CR, though.

 

[MerricB]

"Challenge Level" is most likely some poor Wizards employee getting confused between Challenge Rating and Encounter Level in his or her mind and typing the wrong thing into the text of the MM.

Cheers!

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

CR 21 for that? With 370 HP, a 38 AC, and the ability to use a full attack action and throw a chain lightning every round? Not to mention SR 32 and 15' reach. And heaven help you if your fighter happens to be chaotic and can't use the lawful weapon you need to bypass its DR... Or if he can use a lawful weapon, but that doesn't happen to be his main one, and he has to pull out one of his weaker backup weapons instead.

Oh well, at least he only has a +1 initative so you can run away.

Or he could quickened Maze, full attack, quickened meteor swarm full attack, quickened Gate, full attack if he wanted to--even if those are only 1/day SLAs, that's still pretty brutal. Maybe 20th level PCs will have no problem, but I doubt it.