D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5e] Will they fix the other H spell?

[Ferox4]

Is this the bit where I grab the commentator and put him in a headlock?

*DING* OH! And there's the bell to start Round 8. Hong seems to be distracted as his trainers are restraining him from what appears to be some heckler in the crowd. Boy I'd hate to have that hong guy mad at me.....What's this? KaeYoss is not coming out of his corner?

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I still think Hold Person is fine as it is. So what if a 3rd Level Cleric takes Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and has an 18 WIS to making his saving throw Will DC20? You think it's imbalanced because a 10th level fighter with a +6 Will save has a lowered chance to avoid being held. It's a fighter! Personally, I think the problem is the CdG - not the fact that it can be taken, but the fact that one needs to make a save or die afterwards (we don't use the save or die on the CdG - it's just a critical).

Saarkraut...................

 

[LostSoul]

That's not a bad idea, actually.

And that's the same thing I proposed on the first page!

btw, that Feat of yours looks good.

And remember, folks, if you're going to change something as big as those save-or-die spells into Hit Point damage, you're going to have to rework a lot of everything. So it's not really worth it, but it is something to consider if you're going to make up some house rules.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Please not to insult the homeland of our esteemed moderator Darkness, "Kaeyoss", if that is your REAL NAME.

I'm not insulting any country. But obviously that's the country where such beasts as mind-effecting-immune-fighters are bred (and without giving it genes from any beast that has such an ability itself). They are probably world leading in genetic engineering.

Pretty poor attempt to draw the mods on your side, btw...

Blame Kaeyoss for not actually saying anything and thus opening himself for a FINISHING BLOW.

Oh. I'm awfully sorry. I must have missed the "you have to answer to any posts right away" clause in the terms of use of these boards.

I think it's where Saarkraut comes from.

1.: There's no such thing as Saarkraut. At least not in Saarland itself

2.: What was that part about not insulting countries?

Where is Saarland anyway?

If you don't know already, I won't tell you

I still think Hold Person is fine as it is.

Same with me. Pushing it to 3rd level would not hurt, but even at 2nd it won't kill the game

So what if a 3rd Level Cleric takes Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and has an 18 WIS to making his saving throw Will DC20? You think it's imbalanced because a 10th level fighter with a +6 Will save has a lowered chance to avoid being held. It's a fighter!

Funny thing how people say things are unbalanced: They take a low-level, but min-maxed character and put him against a high-level, but poorly created character, which greatest weakness is the feature in question, and call it unbalanced.

Our fighter in question can take a higher wisdom to raise his will save (making compromises in other areas), and there are items that increase your saves. So the DC could well be +10.
On the other hand, not to many clerics out there have wis 18 and both spell focus and greater spell focus.

I mean, I could also create a fighter 3 with high str and the right feats and let him use poison to attack a wizard 10 with low con. He will probably hit (because the wizard has a bad AC) and the 3d6 con damage (of the poison) will kill the mage (save-or-die situation, 3rd-level char killing 10th-level char) and therefore "proof" that poisons are unbalanced

Personally, I think the problem is the CdG - not the fact that it can be taken, but the fact that one needs to make a save or die afterwards (we don't use the save or die on the CdG - it's just a critical).

Well, it is even more severe than scoring a crit. After all, you can cut that bastard's throat, and that's a surefire killer, IMO.

 

[LostSoul]

I mean, I could also create a fighter 3 with high str and the right feats and let him use poison to attack a wizard 10 with low con. He will probably hit (because the wizard has a bad AC) and the 3d6 con damage (of the poison) will kill the mage (save-or-die situation, 3rd-level char killing 10th-level char) and therefore "proof" that poisons are unbalanced

Or you could just drop the poison and kill the wizard anyways. It's not like it's hard for a Fighter with high Str to kill a wizard with low AC if he can get in close.

Save-or-die spells aren't necessarily unbalanced, but they don't have a feel that every person likes. So changes to these mechanics might be valid for certain groups with different play styles.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I would really like to see alternate rules for most of the save vs effect spells to do temporary ability damage instead. When the damage = ability score, the effect would take place.

As for ability damage, it would be, say d4 per spell level?

E.g. 'charm person'... opps, d4 charisma damage would be too puny. See this I why I like someone else to figure this all out.

 

[hong]

I'm not insulting any country. But obviously that's the country where such beasts as mind-effecting-immune-fighters are bred (and without giving it genes from any beast that has such an ability itself). They are probably world leading in genetic engineering.

This is obviously because WE HAVE BETTER BEER THAN YOU DO. Or something.

Pretty poor attempt to draw the mods on your side, btw...

It's not my fault none of the mods like Saarkraut.

Oh. I'm awfully sorry. I must have missed the "you have to answer to any posts right away" clause in the terms of use of these boards.

Hey, no prob. I'll be right here waiting, no matter HOW long it takes for you to de-explodiate your head.

1.: There's no such thing as Saarkraut. At least not in Saarland itself

Sure, sure. You're just saying that because you're a Saar loser.

2.: What was that part about not insulting countries?

Is Saarkraut a country?

If you don't know already, I won't tell you

Saar loser.

Same with me. Pushing it to 3rd level would not hurt, but even at 2nd it won't kill the game

Just fighters.

Funny thing how people say things are unbalanced: They take a low-level, but min-maxed character and put him against a high-level, but poorly created character, which greatest weakness is the feature in question, and call it unbalanced.

I am glad you seem to think that taking hold person counts as making a "min-maxed" character. I think so too. Do you have anything else to say?

Our fighter in question can take a higher wisdom to raise his will save (making compromises in other areas), and there are items that increase your saves. So the DC could well be +10.

The cleric can also take feats and items to raise the spell DC. Your point is what, exactly?

On the other hand, not to many clerics out there have wis 18

and both spell focus and greater spell focus.

Wanna bet?

I mean, I could also create a fighter 3 with high str and the right feats and let him use poison to attack a wizard 10 with low con.

Hey, if you give your ftr3's enough money to stock up on wyvern blood, deathblade and black lotus extract on a regular basis, that's fine by me!

He will probably hit (because the wizard has a bad AC)

and the 3d6 con damage (of the poison) will kill the mage (save-or-die situation, 3rd-level char killing 10th-level char) and therefore "proof" that poisons are unbalanced

I am glad that your point seems to be that hold person should cost 3,000 gp per casting (cost of wyvern poison, as per DMG). Again, I think so too. Do you have anything else to say?

Well, it is even more severe than scoring a crit. After all, you can cut that bastard's throat, and that's a surefire killer, IMO.

Now I REALLY am confused.


Hong "I blame KaeYoss" Ooi

 

[Simulacrum]

As I mentioned many times before, every self respecting fighter in D&D 3e should take Iron Will and a level or two as Monk just to make sure the saves are A OK.#Ok maybe its just me playing Oriental FR were this a typical must to look into martial arts at least once in your life as fighter

 

[Cayle]

concerning hongs

It's not my fault none of the mods like Saarkraut.
Sure, sure. You're just saying that because you're a Saar loser.
Is Saarkraut a country?
Saar loser.

Real good arguments, bashing when intellectual conversation
is obviously at it's end.

Although i'm new to this Forum, i'm not as new to the game, but some of you must be, as i think, or do all Roleplayers in the Southern Hemisphere play Solo-Adventures!?

Ya ever heard of a spell called Remove Paralysis, or is that one also broken? There you can free (more than one) held Person, and it's -whoaahu- just level 2.
Any Fighter, who would take on an Advenure by himself would probably never reach Level 10, where he would be obliterated by the grandious cleric 3, who's good at holding persons, but not at anything else, because he's maxed out his Holding-Capability,
and therfore would fall against any Undead, ignoring his puny attempts to stop them

So if any of you just check on the capabilitys of your fellow party members, you should see, that they might turn away the fate of an enemy, stalking upon you to ruin the work you put in that poor character. But that would mean to rely on others, which can be a problem in many adventurer partys...

sincerely,

Cayle (Barbarian 6/Rogue 3, never held)

P.S. there is no all-in-one-package, but a 10th Level Fighter with
roundabout 10 Feats should easily dispatch any simpleminded cleric, who's just good at holding...

 

[hong]

Re: concerning hongs

Although i'm new to this Forum,

Hello Cayle! Welcome to our friendly newsgroup!

 

[Darklone]

Hong, just out of interest, do you have a butler too that wipes the dripping sarcasm from the floor after you posted something ?